“I know four Mormons very well. One is a close friend. At least three of them appear to be good, decent people. The other may be something of a racist. One of them is an umpteenth generation Mormon, has a high position in the Mormon Church, and is a closet atheist. The point, if there is one, is that society demands that people profess to have "faith." If your family is from Utah, that faith best be Mormon. Not everyone actually believes it.”
I was lurking around somewhere and saw this comment. Sorry, I don’t remember where; I liked it and emailed it to myself for later use. What struck me about this is the simple truth of the statements. Substitute any religious organization for Mormon Church and you still have simple truth.
We live in a society that demands that people profess to have some kind of religion. I recently became aware of a prayer group at my place of work. I received an invitation in my company email and my company mail slot. What is wrong with that picture? Let me count the ways.
1. Use of company resources for personal agenda
2. Mixing of church and state (my “company” is government)
3. Unfairly pointing out those who do not wish to participate
4. …and others which do not readily come to mind.
I am not offended that someone wishes to have a prayer group at work. That is certainly not for me to decide. If the management doesn’t have a problem with it and it does not infringe on my personal space, go for it. However, it is an infringement to invite every person, including those not personally known by the organizer of such event. In my case a few people know my disposition but it is not something I make a point of telling all. As stated above “society demands that people profess to have faith.": I refuse to do so but I do not make a point of advertising that I am atheist. If I am asked, I am honest about. I wish the religious would be so considerate.
10 comments:
Interested said I am not offended that someone wishes to have a prayer group at work. That is certainly not for me to decide. If the management doesn’t have a problem with it and it does not infringe on my personal space, go for it. However, it is an infringement to invite every person, including those not personally known by the organizer of such event. In my case a few people know my disposition but it is not something I make a point of telling all. As stated above “society demands that people profess to have faith.": I refuse to do so but I do not make a point of advertising that I am atheist. If I am asked, I am honest about. I wish the religious would be so considerate.
A few things you need to know or remember here.
You pointed out, you do not go around telling every one your an atheist, so if someone invites you to a prayer meeting, maybe they did not know.
Now lets say they did know, many so called atheist have come to a saving faith in Jesus, so maybe they ask over and over in hopes of you some day coming.
Then if you still do not care, maybe they ask you even if it offendes you because the Bible tells us that the Cross of Christ is foolishness to those that perish. And so by them asking you knowing you will not go, simply proves the Bible to be true by your actions. Rick b
"We live in a society that demands that people profess to have some kind of religion."
Did your employer demand that you profess your religious preference on your application?
Did you have to profess to a religious affiliation when opening a checking account?
When you applied for a credit card?
When you turned on your utilities?
Ever been denied a promotion, housing, or service at a restaurant, or a store, airline, or anything else because you didn't profess a belief?
I can't speak to what goes on in Utah or Mormons. That'd be a whole 'nother discussion, but I can speak to this country generally.
If we believe the polls, most people do believe God exists.
Out of all those that say they believe, there's a fair amount that believe they've got marching orders from Jesus to tell the world
the Gospel. That includes you.
That's all we're required to do, is tell. Well, there's more, but that's assuming you respond to His call. If you don't, we're done here.
We're not required to beat you into submission or exile you to a desert island, or vote for someone else to do it for us. We're not required to hate you or kill you.
Beyond that, the 14th Amendment protects you from all that anyway.
This whole email thing is a red herring. If someone at my job wanted to start a Morman Bible study and sent a global email that got to me, so what? I don't have to respond or explain why I didn't respond, period. Nor do you.
The other side of the 1st Amendment is not restricting the free exercise of religion. As long as any other religious group is not prohibited from doing the same thing at your job, I see nothing wrong here.
So it would be alright for me to send out a global email inviting everyone to a Bright meeting? I think I would put myself in real jeopardy because there is an expectation that "this is a christian nation".
We tell the world that we have equal rights for all but as a country we discriminate against any group on the outside of Judeo/Christian beliefs. We are all Americans, yet gays,lesbians, and athiest (among other small groups) are denied rights because christians say it is immoral. Why is that? How can we say we are a free country and then deny basic rights?
"We are all Americans, yet gays,lesbians, and athiest (among other small groups) are denied rights because christians say it is immoral."
As to your e-mail scenario, i might ask if you consider atheism a religion. If so, I think you're on solid ground to send it.
I'm assuming that since you didn't respond to any of scenarios I posited, that you haven't had any of you rights under the Constitution abridged because of non-belief.
In particular, what actual 'rights' are you or homosexuals being denied at this point?
Now, lets say you were the boss, and you had two people vying for a promotion, one being Christian, and one being atheist. All other things between the two being equal, would you be 100% objective in evaluating them for the job?
No.
Who would you be more comfortable working with?
Socially, you're always going to have people that stick together because of some common interest, belief, or heritage. That is reality. No constitutional amendment will ever address that.
Not a perfect world we live in, huh?
Say what you want about Gays not getting equel rights, but they are just as at fault as everyone else you blame.
Gays pull this kinda stunt, They say that If I call my self "religious" or name a spefic group to label myself like a christian or JW, or Mormon Etc, I get accused by them of hating them for not allowing them to marry.
But as you stick to your convictions, and Gays stick to their convictions it is all good. But I stick to mine and I am called hateful.
Then the gays want me to be tolarent of them or I get sued and called hateful, yet they are very intolarente of any religious beliefe. So say what you want, but it really does work both ways.
Then as them being Gay, I do not condon their life style the Bible says it is wrong, but as a person I have no problem with them. That would be like saying I hate drug pushers or drug addicts, I hate the sin the sell or do, yet the people I do not hate. Rick b
Rick, you may be right that I don't have to respong to the email, however I feel uncomfortable about the situation. Many at my workplace have salutations on their email that bothers me as well; "Have a blessed day" or God be with you or Glory to Him. How do you think it would go ove if I signed my email. There is no god or Have a superstition free day?
However,the point of this post is that I feel it is inapproriate for any type of religious activities to be promoted using work resources. I stand by that. I believe we are paid to do a job and that any personal stuff should take place outside the workplace.
If we believe the polls most people PROFESS to believe in god. I still think there are a lot of closet atheist.
G, in reference to the discrimination you asked about the answer is no, I haven't had a problem with credit cards etc, however remember they don't ask for religious preference or age or even gender. That's a good law.
Also, applications do not ask for religious preference so hiring someone would be based only on what is presented or if required uncovered in a background check.
I work with many Christians and JWs and even one Muslim. I have no problem, we get along well, untill someone uses our workplace inappropriately.
"...the point of this post is that I feel it is inapproriate for any type of religious activities to be promoted using work resources..."
Wouldn't that impinge on my right to free exercise of religion?
I think there's a difference between promotion of religion and accomodation for the free expression of religion.
This is always going to be a sticky issue, as the line tends to move with changes in society rather than strict interpretation.
Interested said How do you think it would go over if I signed my email. There is no god or Have a superstition free day?
I guess what it comes down to is this, everyone gets offended at some time by someone, I say get over it. You could sign your letters to me however you want, I would simply smile and maybe even laugh.
I tell everyone in every job I work, Swear around me or talk about Porn, which many guys do where I work or do and say whatever you want, but when I speak about Jesus do not tell me I cannot, otherwise I will tell you what you can and cannot say around me.
It's sad but true, people talk and talk about whatever they want, yet as soon as another bring up a subject they do not like the other person gets mad.
Lets just say every person you work with hold the same view you do, their is no God and they claim to be atheist, Some one would some how still offended you. Here is an example from where I work.
I work with a few people who are like you, yet one is open to homesexuals, he is not gay himself, but he has no problem with their lifestyle, the other also is like you, very much againt God being real, no way no how, yet he is very oppsed to the gay lifestyle.
These two have even argued over it many times, one saying they should live however they want, the other saying they should move to a dessert island and live. So even apart from "religion" we have to atheists who get mad at each other over their beliefes. Rick b
So true. Being offended is a part of life because my right to swing my fist ends at your jaw...or something like that.
I would like to get along with everyone and most of the time I do well at it. Whenever I am offended it is less often by the religious than by the rude and inconsiderate whose religion or lack of it is inconsequential.
"We live in a society that demands that people profess to have some kind of religion."
So can we put this to bed with the idea that 'no, society doesn't DEMAND that you profess to have some kind of religion'?
I'll leave it at that.
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