Now that I know I'm going to hell I wanted to do a little reading about it. While having my house painted this weekend I did a little reading...not enough yet, but just a start.
My son had this book at work and handed it to me one day. I scanned it and put it aside. Go to Hell: A Heated History of the Underworld by Chuck Crisafulli and Kyra Thompson. However with my new travel plans I decided to do some research. I started with this book and went to the bible. I used the KJV and the internet, online bible sites. I was surprised to find how little mention there is in the christian handbook about this horrible place.
http://ecclesia.org/truth/hell.html
So now let's talk about hell. How do you know it exists? What verses do you quote to be sure of your knowledge about hell? Does the bible describe it?
Well, I'm just asking?
30 comments:
The Bible does not go into great detail about hell, So if you read other books or people that said they went to hell, I suspect they lied or are lying.
Jesus in the gospels spoke more of hell than heaven. Hell is not a place that Satan rules and everyone parties.
Hell is a place of eternal damnation and punishment. If you read the Bible, Hell WAS NOT created for us, it was created for Satan and his fallen angels.
The Bible tells us it is not Gods desire for any of us to go to hell, but if we go it is by our choice.
I know your going to say, Well if Hell is real and it is bad as you say, I would not willing choose to go. But their is only two Choices, Follow Jesus to heaven or follow Satan to hell.
Like it or not that is the only choices. And the Bible tells us about it and how to avoid it, so if you end up in Hell then you can only blame yourself.
Then it gets worse, Hell and everyone in it will be tossed into the lake of fire that burns forever.
Hell is only a holding tank till the final judgment. You have right till the time of your death to Choose Jesus, but after that it's to late you made your choice.
Jesus even talks in the gospels about a person that goes to hell. Hell is not a place we can walk over to and look into. Where it is or anything about it out side of what Jesus or the Bible says we cannot know.
The bible does not say this, but I believe it to be true, the thing that makes hell so bad is that we are apart from Jesus, we were created to be with Him but we will not be with Him.
I believe hell also is so bad because we will know were missing out on many great and awesome things.
Plus the Bible tells us, that EVERY SINGLE PERSON will one day stand before God and declare that Jesus is Lord, then those that rejected Jesus will be cast into the lake of fire.
So it will be a bummer for you because you deny God exists now, but then you will see you were wrong, you will bow your knee to him and declare He is Lord, then be tossed out of His presence forever.
Then it will suck for you and beast and others because you guys reject Jesus and despise people like me, but the Bible implies you will be reminded over and over for ever the talks that you had with people like me telling you about Jesus.
You will be sorry and then angry because for ALL of Eternity you will be tormented by the fact my talks with you will be played over and over and over, and you will be sorry for rejecting the truth, then you will be angery for seeing my talks played over and over for you. But I guess you can tell me I am wrong and you dont believe me and live your life up till you die. Then once you die you will be standing before God crying knowing it's to late and I was correct all along.
And it really breaks my heart that your going to be tormented forever and you either dont care or you reject it. Rick b
I don't hate you and people like you, including a couple of my daughters. I feel sorry for you because you are wasting the only life you have in fear. This is a wonderful life and I am living it to the fullest without fear. I am a moral person, a good neighbor and proper citizen so I am not afraid of your hell...even though I see little evidence for it in the bible.
And who has ever said they went to hell? I do know people who say they have been "through hell" and I think it is a metaphor for having a tough time.
BTW, Rick I'm not trying to convert you. I'm afraid based on the things you believe about me that you would be an awful atheist wit no morals and nothing to keep you from being a murdering scoundrel. so, I'm glad you have your handbook to keep you on the straight an narrow.
Interested,
Your correct about me being a bad atheist. Growing up I hated the world and I hated everyone, I had to see a shrink at the age of 5 because of violence.
I was in lots of fights, I tried killing a couple of people and I did whatever I wanted.
Now where your wrong is this, Since I followed Jesus my life has not been easy, I still struggle with wanting to give some people the ass whoppin the deserve.
But I do not life my life in fear of God. I am not wasting my life in fear, as a Christian I still do things I enjoy, like watch movies, go out to eat, Fight, yes I said Fight. I love Mixed Martial Arts and I did Judo and Ju-Jitsu for years.
I love submission style fighting and have watch every single UFC. They are going onto number 105 of the UFC this month.
I have a great wife and 3 kids and some really good friends, so no I am not wasting my life in fear.
But it's like this, lets say I am correct and I die, then I stand before God, I have wasted nothing. If your wrong you have wasted both your life on this earth and threw away all of eternity.
Now if your correct and God is not real, then after I die I still have wasted nothing because I will no longer cease to exist and will never know.
Plus this might sound strange, but some people alive today are alive because I am a believer. Say what you want about wasting time or living in fear, but if it were not for Jesus, I would have killed some people, I'm serious and I have friends who will attest to that.
Also like my pastor says, who you rather have him believe in God and try and help you out and be your friend, or deny God exists then go back to lying to you and trying to break into your house?
Sounds funny in some ways, but many people who come to Christ have a very violent past and are former drug users, murders or whatever.
This will come across as very sick and twisted, but I'm being honest with you about who I am. As a believer, I might love people and go out of my way to help them, but at the same time, you attack me or my family and I will put you in a world of hurt.
Now dont take what I wrote the wrong way, When I said "You" I was not speaking about you interested, the You was any human who harms my family. I learned how to fight, but when it comes to defending my self or my family, their are no rules, I will and have instructed friends on how to defend themselves.
I go for the eyes, I will grab your face by the sides and I will push my thumbs in so far I can feel your brain, no amount of screaming or blood will stop me from hurting anyone that attacks me or my family.
Sounds terrible, but it would be worse if I were not a believer. People really do have a hard time when I say these things, but I am only being honest about who I am and where I stand.
Jesus never called us to be door mats and allow people to simply enslave us and torment us. Rick b
Like I said...I'm real glad you found Jesus.
So are many others. But like I said, I dont follow Him out of fear, Jesus Himself said, perfect love casts out all fear. Rick b
INT:
I think a better book for you to read is 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Weise. I was skeptical of this book at first, but after I checked up on the author, I decided to read it. If I didn't have the Hell scared out of me before, this book surely did the trick! I think you can even check his story out on youtube as well.
Interested, Nicole told you about a book called 23 minutes in hell. Dont waste your time, the guy is either a liar trying to make money, or he is lying but with "Good intentions" Either way it is a lie.
I know you and Nichole will ask why I say this or what makes me so sure.
Well it's like this.
1. No place in the Bible did anyone EVER and I mean NEVER Go to hell, then come back and report on it.
2. Jesus will not send one of His children to hell and allow them to be tormented so they can tell others about hell, it is simply not found in scripture any place.
3. Their are reports of Gods saints, like Paul for example Dying and getting visions of Heaven. Those visions never saved anyone.
4. the biggest reason I say whaty I say is, read this account of Hell from the Bible. This deny's what Bill says, plus Jesus said this about hell, So do I believe Jesus? Or Do I believe some mortal man I never meet?
Jesus says in the story, that Father Abraham says, even if one were to be raised from the dead, people would not believe. So if people went to hell, that would only be a story.
Then why 23 minutes in hell, 5 minutes is not enough? 2 minutes? 1 minute? Please, the guy is selling books. Plus on his website He claims demons torment people in hell. If thats true, find it in the Bible.
The account in the Bible was, Jesus spared the Demons from going to torment know, so he let them go into a heard of pigs. Demons are tormented in hell, not tormenting us.
here is what Jesus said, Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Rick b.
Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
No more bible quotes or I will delete your comments.
The Bible is where we learn about hell. If we can't quote scripture, then how are you going to know what hell is like?
Did you bother to look at the link I posted about hell in the bible?
You really are a liar. You asked us, what is hell, I give scripture and you say never do that again or you will delete it.
This shows you are a lair and really hate the word of God. You again go to sites that tell you what you want to hear. Instead of going to these sites how about read the Bible instead?
Why ask if you really dont want to know. Rick b
Rick: I stand corrected. You are right on all points.
INT:
I haven't finished perusing the site yet.
Interested, Seeing as how you really dont want to hear what the Bible says, why did you even ask the question about hell? Rick b
Rick, Nicole I owe you both an apology. I did ask for verses and you gave them to me. You are right this time, because I did jump much too quick. I just got to work and I have some fires to put out but I will come back and address your comments. Again, I do apologize for my curtness.
Okay this is why I asked the question. Today there are many church doctrines which do not speak of hell. It has become increasingly deemphasized in many Christian sects. This is a quote from the site I posted above:
The KJV and the NKJV are the only two translations in the list above to use "hell" in the Old Testament. Even the NKJV, which was only supposed to modernize the English words of the traditional "Authorized Version," took many "hell" references out. The use of the word "hell" is decreasing. The NKJV, RSV, ASV, NRSV, and NASB are all technically revisions of the original KJV. From 54 times to 32 and then to 12 or 13 times--who knows--maybe the next revision will bring it in line with the many Bibles which have eliminated the pagan word Hell all together.
There are several words in the bible which are translated as hell but there is much controversy among bible scholars as to the correctness of the translations. My questions relate to this controversy.
Aren't those who do not hear or accept the Gospel doomed by God?
In the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), when the younger son demanded his inheritance and left home to indulge in riotous living, he was not stopped by his father. His father did not chase him away yelling, "You good-for-nothing impudent, rebellious ass of a boy! You'll burn in hell!" Not at all. Not even remotely. The father did not threaten the boy with hell-fire and damnation -- why should he? He knew that the boy was going to create this for himself all on his own. Instead, he let the boy go in peace with the freedom to think, feel, and act as he pleased, without recrimination.
What do you imagine the boy would have thought some time later, when he had lost everything -- money, friends, and self-respect -- if, when in the depths of desperation, he called to mind his father, and heard echoing through his head, "You no-good-for-nothing impudent, rebellious ass of a boy! You'll burn in hell!" Think about it for a moment. And then ask yourself the question: What was it that made the boy want to return home in the story that Jesus told? Was it the picture of a father breathing hell and damnation or of a sorrowful man who loved him enough to give him his freedom to do as he pleased?
We are not in the position of passing ultimate judgment on any man. We do not know how God will judge a man or woman in the eternities because we lack those omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving keys of love. ... but we have never been given the mandate to pass judgment on any individual in his relationship to eternity. Never!
And I challenge anyone to show me in the scripture where we have been given that mandate.
. In addition, Only God Himself will determine what happens to us after we die. Opinions about what may or may not happen to us, or to others, after death, is just that...opinions. For nobody really knows what will happen except God Himself.
I dont have a lot of time, so I will reply more later. But for starts let use this, Interested said We are not in the position of passing ultimate judgment on any man. We do not know how God will judge a man or woman in the eternities because we lack those omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving keys of love. ... but we have never been given the mandate to pass judgment on any individual in his relationship to eternity. Never!
And I challenge anyone to show me in the scripture where we have been given that mandate.
Jesus said that People who deny Him will end up in hell, If what Jesus said is true, then I can say to people like you, if you reject Jesus you will end up in hell.
Then, You claim we cannot Judge you, were NOT JUDGING you in a final judgment sense saying I condemn you to hell, Were warning you about it and saying you are going to end up in hell because you deny Jesus.
Then read the NT, It is full of apostles giving accounts of the Followrs of Jesus telling people what hell is like and who will go. So no, you not correct in your view. Rick b
Interested,
Read the book of Jude, That speaks of the horrors to come and eternal damnation.
Read the Account of Paul, he called down blindness upon someone who was trying to pervert the Gospel of God.
Interested said We do not know how God will judge a man or woman in the eternities
Your so wrong on this, Jesus told us exactly what will happen and to whom. God/Jesus is warning us through out the entire Bible of the torment to come.
Interested said but we have never been given the mandate to pass judgment on any individual in his relationship to eternity. Never!
And I challenge anyone to show me in the scripture where we have been given that mandate.
I will take you up on this challenge and give scripture to support it.
The Apostle Paul said 1Cr 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
Paul is saying if YOU DONT even LOVE JESUS, Then you can and will go to hell.
Paul learned this from Jesus and what Jesus said and taught. If Paul can tell people that if you dont even Love Jesus you can go to hell.
Paul says about People who teach false Gospels Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Like it or not, Paul tells everyone, Atheists, Mormons, JW's, Islam and anyone, If you teach anything contrary to what He taught, and he learned from Jesus, then your going to hell. So I can say to people the same thing.
Now lets go back to the OT, Read the Book of Job, God said, Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who [is] this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
God called Job to account for not knowing what he was talking about. God will call all of us to account. Read all of Job for full context, God goes onto tell Job's friends to offer up a sacrifice to spare themselves because of the stupid stuff they said.
Read the book of Revelation, Jesus says, Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
The Bible tells us that if are names are in the Book of Life we are saved and will enter Heaven, but God says He can or will remove are names from the Book of life if we do these things to the Word of God.
The Bible tells us that Jesus will do this, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
You admit you dont believe in God, you you will experience Flaming vengeance, it does not sound fun to me and I dont want to experience it. Jesus said it not me, but I can tell people if you do not obey the Gospel or believe in Jesus you will experience this.
I can go on, but I figure if you dont believe this, why bother with more. Rick b
First, these are not my words. I posted a link to the site earlier. The site has a lot of information from a christian point of view.
Many of the quotes you gave do not say 'hell' the words used are
place of torment
let him be accursed.
plagues that are written in this book:
My premis is that the there is great controversy about hell and the meaning of the writings in the bible. Most bible scholars agree that the KJV of the bible was translated with the 'twist' of the times. Many other translations are actually closer to the original Hebrew and Greek. I think that the vision of hell you espouse is based on 'Dantes Inferno'. Historically, it is the description most believed today.
Like I said, Hell is only a holding tank, the Final judgment will have even Hell tossed into the lake of Fire. Rick b
Now I'm really confused. If Hell is a holding tank...well where does it say that in the bible?
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Everything in hell will be tossed along with hell into the lake of fire.
Plus read the gospels, the account I posted talking about the rich man in hell. Later in the gospels, Jesus dies on the cross and the graves were open and people rose from the dead. Those were the people in Abraham's side, the rest were on the hell side, waiting for the second death which is the lake of fire. so you go from bad to worse. Rick b
INT: While some of the definitions on your source site are accurate, the interpretation of them is wrong. I tried and couldn't find an author listed. If you know, please divulge.
Let me clear something up, On the issue of, Many of the quotes you gave do not say 'hell' the words used are
place of torment
let him be accursed.
plagues that are written in this book:
Hell is a place of torment. With the issue of, let him be accursed, being accursed is being told you will go to hell.
Plagues that are written in this book. If you read more and did not quote only part of it, you would read that if you tamper with the word of God, your name will be removed from the book of life.
If you not in the book of life then you cannot enter heaven, then the only place left for you is hell. then the lake of fire. Rick b
Interestingly enough, I did a study on The Place of the Dead by Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum. He lists eight different terms: sheol, hades, Abbadon, the pit, the abyss, tartarus, hell, gehenna, the lake of fire.
Now, sheol and hades are the hebrew and greek names for the same place. The pit is a descriptive name for the unrighteous side, while Abbadon is the proper name for it.
He expounds that the unbeliever side is more dreadful than the believer side and there are different levels. It is always mentioned as downward. People were conscious there and it is a temporary state.
The abyss is a greek word for netherworld or bottomless. It is never associated with people. It is a temporary place for fallen angels.
Tartarus is a greek word for pit of darkness. This is reserved for the fallen angels in connection with the flood of Noah. The sons of God who mated with human women to compromise the human gene pool.
Hell is an english word meaning to hide or to cover. Dr F describes people as "shades". I cannot recall the exact meaning of that. There is torment in hell, there is separation from God, it is a place of judgment.
Gehanna and the lake of fire describe the same thing. It is an eternal abode of the lost, both fallen angels and men. Punishment includes both body and soul It is eternal torment and associated with fire and brimstone.
Fell free to check out the complete study on ariel.org. Click Come and See at the bottom of the page and the study is mbs 107.
I also take issue with your source pages interpretation of the prodigal son story.
That story is meant to show God's unconditional love for us. It shows that we have the choice to obey God or not. The son chose to collect his inheritance and leave. The father let him. When the son quandered everything, he realized his mistake. he decided to go back to his father and REPENT. If you read the story the son said to the father as he returned," Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son [I no longer deserve to be recognized as a son of yours]!"
What's more amazing, is the father saw him from afar off and ran out to meet him. He told his servents to bring a ring, a robe and some sandals for him and had a feast. He was willing to accept him, even though he had went astray. That's what is so awesome about God, if you repent of your sin you are continously renewed in His sight.
(1 John 1:9 amplfied)
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
Nicole I commend you on you study. I checked out the site and there is some good information there.
As for the author of the the writing, I believe it is an organization and likely done by several people.
Awww, thanks Interested. :)
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