Subject: So, Jesus Came to Earth to Stop God from Barbarically Killing Any More People and in mercifully doing away with the Stop-Me-Before-I-Kill-Again Lord's Law of Moses, this is therefore supposed to make "Jesus the King/God Responsible For All the Killing in the First Place" deserving of our eternal worship and unending gratitude--not to mention making us dependent on him for our salvation and happiness?
Praise the abuser, while blaming yourself for the abuse he heaps upon you?
I mean, how sick is that?
In another thread, poster "CosmoMcK" explains the wonderful gory glory of this proctology cosmology:
"Jesus was exposing their [the stoners] hypocrisy and teaching them about forgiveness. The concept of stoning was a Jewish one, not a Christian one. Christ did away with the Law of Moses, and Christians believe they live by the law of mercy. Come to think of it, I don't hear of Jews stoning people anymore either. I do hear of Muslims stoning people."
(Subject: "Re: And christians can't seem to explain HOW you could interpret it to mean what they claim it does," Date: 4 December 2009, 02:07, Author: CosmoMcK, Mail Address: blindspot64@yahoo.com, at:
http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/view.php?bn=exmobb_recovery&key=1259910423&modified=1259910423)
This is what Jesus should be honored for--exposing the sinfulness of those who, in earlier times, had simply been doing what God himself had ordered them to do: bashing people's brains in with rocks?
Jesus finally puts a stop to this heaven-sanctioned sick-in-the-head slaughter of humankind and for this he deserves our adoration and love forever and ever?
Gimme a break. Jesus/Jehovah/My-Way-or-the-Highway Yahweh was in on it, for gawd's sake!
Besides, what in the hell was God doing ordering such murderous, revolting, pathological punishment in the first place?
Why would anyone want to honor such a savagely sadistic, out-of-control, damnable deity who was guilty of ordering the stoning to death of every man, woman, child or animal in sight whom this gruesome God monster had deemed deserving of cranium-crushing by rock-chucking?
Geezus. It's enough to make you upchuck.
Let me get this straight: Jesus came to earth to do away with a form of killer criminality that was originally approved and commanded by God?
Well, let's sure as hell hope so.
I mean, someone has to stop this gawd-awful God from his maniacal, murderous ways before he wipes out the entire planet in a frothing fit of mindless madness. ("Um, Dad, sorry to interrupt your stone-to-death fest, but can I have a word with you?")
For the revolting record, death by stoning was a God-ordained punishment for the following "crimes" against Heaven:
--for those who touched Mt. Sinai (Exodus 19:12-13);
--for an ox that gores a person, with not only the offending ox stoned to death but its owner also put to death if found negligent for not preventing his ox from doing the goring (Exodus 21:28-29);
--for an ox that gores a slave, with the owner of the ox forced to pay the owner of the slave 30 shekels of silver (Exodus 21:32)
--for those with "familiar spirits"--i.e, folks like witches and fortune tellers (Leviticus 20:27)
--for a woman whose husband decides he hates her and who he can claim was not a virgin when they married--that is, if the woman's father fails to produce the "tokens of her virginity" (in this case, bloody sheets). Failing to do that, she is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep (Leviticus 22:13-21)
--for a man who blaphemes or curses while arguing with another man, being stoned to death by the community as a whole (Leviticus 24:10-23)
--for those who generally blaspheme or curse, being stoned to death, again, by the entire community (Leviticus 24:16)
--for a stubborn or rebellious son, being stoned to death by his father and the other men in the neighborhood (Deuteronomy 12:18-21)
--for a raped virgin who fails to scream out loud enough, being stoned to death by the men in town (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)
--for Achan, his sons, his daughters, his oxen, his sheep and all his other animals, who were taken by Joshua and stoned to death by all the people of Israel, after which their bodies were burned (Joshua 7:24-26)
--for the Ammonites, whom the Lord killed by casting stones down on them from heaven (Joshua 10:11)
--for blaspheming "god and the king" (1 Kings 21:10-13)
--for small children, whose death by rocks to the head will make one happy as one "taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones" (Psalms 137:9)
--for one of two sisters who was found guilty of "committing whoredoms" by, with her sibling, pressing their breasts and bruising "the teats of their virginity," and therefore whose nose and ears were cut off, who was then made to "pluck off" her own breasts, and after having been forced to do so was raped and mutilated before being stoned to death (Ezekiel 23:1-49)
--for offending sons and daughters who the Israelites were commanded to "stone . . . with stones, and [to] dispatch . . . with their swords; [and] . . . [to] slay . . . and [to] burn up their houses with fire" (Ezekiel 23:47)
--for all the people of Samaria, whom God will destroy with, of course, stones (Micah 1:6)
--for animals that "so much as . . . touch the mountain" (2 Thessalonians 12:20)
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
_____
Praise God! Jesus came down from Heaven above to stop God from any more stoning to death down below.
Well, whoopty-doo-doo.
Give the guy a hand--even though he was part and parcel of the whole bloody business from the beginning.
Date: Dec 04 03:14
Author: steve benson
ExMormon.org
25 comments:
...and everyone should read this thread...
http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/index.php?site=exmobb&bn=exmobb_recovery
I like this article because is exposes what a bunch of lying, ignorant, god hating agenda pushing people you really are.
You guys cherry pick verses and probably never even read the Bible.
Then if you guys never read the Bible, then your being deceitful for not reading it but saying stuff like this and pushing your agenda.
But if you have read the Bible, you guys are still lyres because you leave out all the verse that show and speak of Gods mercy.
You leave out the facts like, God gave laws and states if you break them you will be punished and how.
Yet we as humans have laws and even execute if they do certain things. But I do not see atheists writing about the government and the laws claiming were in human for telling people if you break the law, this will happen.
Question for the Atheists. Lets say God is real and did create us, Then if God created us, does He have the power to set up laws and demand we follow these laws God set, or be punished if we dont follow them? If the answer is yes, then quite crying. If the answer is no, then explain why God can create us, but then not set out rules for us to follow.
Then as I said before, but no surprise here you ignore what I said and the bible teaches because your deceitful and have an agenda to push. The laws God set out were for the Jews, Not the gentiles.
The gentiles were not stoned for not following Gods laws. Rick b
Rick I posted your comment at exmormon. Check out the comments
http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/index.php?site=exmobb&bn=exmobb_recovery
Interested, Seeing as how you cannot answer my questions I am not surprised you posted my reply on that board.
But it was a joke since those guys could not or did not answer my questions. all they did was make fun of what I said and made no attempt at a reply, but then how can you reply if you cannot give an honest answer. Rick b
Interested,
I read every reply and no real answers were given.
1st the question I asked about, If God did create us then can he do what he wants? Yes or no.
then the replys that were given, people said, Is Rick living out every law, If not he is a hypocrite.
Then since people can tell me I am wrong but cannot show me how, Let me ask this. I tell people that God gave the laws to the Jews only, People laugh and mock, but they cannot show me where I am wrong, So show me where God gave the laws to everyone and how they apply to everyone.
Then people point out and say, I must follow the laws and keep every law. God in the OT gave the laws, but He only gave 10 laws, the Jews added so many laws that the Jews now have over 600 laws.
So if people claim I must keep all the laws, show me from the Bible where God laid out over 600 laws, No one can do it, so it shows your ignorance.
Then people say I must or we as Christians must keep all the laws. Read the NT, Jesus said if I love God and love my neighbor I fulfill ALL THE LAWS.
So can you or your friends on the other site answer these questions honestly, or will you guys either ignore them again or simply make fun of what I said but cannot bother giving an honest answer? your lack of answers is very telling. Rick b
Let me add also, If I do as God says, and love Him or love my neighbor then I fulfill all the laws because If I really love God then I wont want to kill my neighbor, Or sleep with his wife, or break into his house Etc.
Also Just wondering, Is Beast Dead? I went to his blog and blogs that he was working on and nothing has been posted by him in over a year. Plus he has not been here telling me off. I suspect he died but dont know for sure, If he did die then I know he is wishing he could come tell you to repent. Rick b
Yes, if god created us he could do what he wants...but why not make us perfect and willing to worship him without going through all the hoop-la?
You continue to talk about the laws given to the jews and not the gentiles. It really doesn't matter to me and to most who don't hold the bible to be divinely inspired. However, you are the first Christian I have ever encountered who said the law was not written for gentiles.
interested said You continue to talk about the laws given to the jews and not the gentiles. It really doesn't matter to me and to most who don't hold the bible to be divinely inspired. However, you are the first Christian I have ever encountered who said the law was not written for gentiles.
If it does not really matter to you about the laws not being given to the gentiles, then why do you even bring it up?
You say a lot of things do not matter to you, but I find that hard to believe because you talk a lot about it.
It's like I said before, I do not believe Santa exists, so therefore I dont talk about him and try to disprove he exists.
Yet you claim you dont believe in God, but yet you sure go out of your way to try and show people how cruel you think he is, and talk a lot about him and what he had to say.
Then you say I am the only Christian that claims the laws were for the Jews only not the gentiles. If thats the case go talk to these Christians and ask them for chapter and verse.
If you take time to read the OT, You will see that from the time of Adam to the time of Abraham their was no law. Then God took Abram and called him Abraham and made the nation of the Jews.
The Jews were set apart from the Gentiles and were given the laws, Gentiles could if they so wanted to could convert to the Jewish faith, then they were under the Jewish law.
So you can tell me I am wrong all you want, but you and your so called Christian friends cannot show me from the Bible where I am wrong.
Then as I said Before, in the new testament God said ALL THE LAWS ARE FULFILLED in these two, Love God and Love your neighbor.
So when you guys harp on us Christians not keeping every law, this simply shows how ignorant you really are. Then when I point out those verse and others that say we are under grace and not the law, you guys both cannot answer why that is and then ignore it and keep going back and harping on the OT laws. I really wonder, are you so blind that you cannot see the logic that is laid out before you, or do you understand and really are out to lie and deceive people?
It seems your out to lead people astray and deceive since no matter how much you are shown you are wrong and why you still continue to ignore what is said and only harp on the so called problems you perceive.
Then God did create us perfect and gave us free will, it was us who choose to disobey. if you choose not to believe thats fine, but still if you choose to say God did not create us perfect then show me from the Bible. Rick b
"Then God did create us perfect and gave us free will, it was us who choose to disobey. if you choose not to believe thats fine, but still if you choose to say God did not create us perfect then show me from the Bible. Rick b"
Rick we are not perfect if our "free will" allows us to make a mistake. Do you not see the logic in my reasoning? I do not state that the bible says we are not perfect I just have to look around...any where anytime and see what humans are capable of.
I can't see the reasoning behind it: why would an all powerful being create underlings and not subjegate them to his will?
Please explain why that makes sense. I understand and have read your quotes but just using logic tell me how that makes sense.
I am willing to talk logic and support for that logic but please stop trying to convert me.
We have free will because God did not make us robots.
We program robots, cell phone and things of that nature to do our will, God did not create us as robots. Yes we are no longer perfect, we were created perfect but in our perfection we choose to did obey. Robots cannot choose to disobey, but we can and did. Also I am not trying to convert you, you made your choice and are choosing Hell and separation after death, thats your choice, But I am giving honest answers to your posts. Rick b
I repeat: WHY!
Logic please.
I can't see the reasoning behind it: why would an all powerful being create underlings and not subjegate them to his will?
Please explain why that makes sense. I understand and have read your quotes but just using logic tell me how that makes sense.
Like it or not, If God is real and has all power, then He can do as He wishes and their is nothing we can do about it.
If your interested, I am not going back and forth with Stevie the wonder boy from the ex mormon blog. All Stevie can do is call me names and insult me, he cannot and has not tried to answer my questions.
So question about logic, since you seem to beg for logic. How can you guys be sure your right if you cannot answer questions. And I claim over and over you guys are being dishonest. How can logic say you really honest if you leave out information? Rick b
Rick I have already agreed that if god wer real he could do what ever he wants but I still beg you to answer WHY would he do it?
He wanted to create us to be with Him. Otherwise if their is more to it, God has not said.
The Bible uses an example of a potter making clay vessels, Can the created piece of pottery say to the person that created it, why have you created me? No it cannot, even if it could it really does not matter, it has been created.
We as humans create things all the time, we do not have to answer to the things we create if for some reason it should question us. Rick b
Interested,
You must be really proud of your atheist god hating friends.
Steve Benson could not answer a single question I asked about the Post he wrote and you posted on your blog.
So can you guess what Steve did? He called me names, tried to insult me and then shut down the thread.
Boy you should be proud, You quote a guy that tells you what you want to hear, then like you cannot answer a single question, then shuts down the thread so I cannot reply any more.
Again, you claim your seeking Logical answers, well the logical answer I'm looking for is, Why is it you guys tell me the Bible is wrong, you guys use partial quotes from the Bible and leave out parts that answer your question and then lead people to believe something that is not true, then try and tell people your an honest and moral person seeking honest answers when in reality your not.
If you can and do answer these questions I will be surprised, but as I have seen in times past, I honestly dont expect an honest answer from you.
You will either ignore what I wrote, Reply to a past question giving the impression you answered this question or you will answer only part of this topic but not all of it, again giving the impression you answered it. Rick b
Havent seen the posts between you and Steve. I'll look for them
well the one topic that you posted here was shut down, the other I called the topic, steve benson is a liar, I was told that might get shut down.
Then I had a no name person write me in private, they claimed to be a lurker who never posts. They said they reported my topic to the admn, because everyone kept attacking me and thats against the rules.
Then the person said that board is only one sided, they pretty much never answer questions when it comes to Atheists vs Christians. But that is no surprise. I find all the time you guys have no real answers, you can only toss out partial bible verse, willingly ignoring others or purposely leaving out information. Rick b
I went back and read some of the posts between you and Steve. I agree that many on that board are a bit overbearing. However, in their defense, they are trying to recover from pretty traumatic happenings in their lives. I understand why they have a lot of bitterness.
I am still trying to get your answer to WHY? Here's my point; in life all thing happen for a reason, I don't mean some predestined reason but because the creater expects a return. You said that god created us because he wanted us to be with him but if that were the case why would he allow "free will" so that some choose not to be with him. You say god did not create robots but that isn't an answer because you say that god made us perfect. How can we be perfect (in the eyes of our creator) if we do not do his will?
Explore that idea for a while Rick. I really want to know what you see as a logical reason for his doing so.
My two cents:
I agree with Rick. The Law was written for the Jews only. But, I respectfully disagree that there were only 10 laws. There are actually 613 laws written in Numbers, Leviticus and Deuteronomy for the Jews. I found a webpage that list all of them: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm.
Nicole, Those are not "New" or added laws, I am aware of them, they simply are more detailed ways to follow the ten commandments.
But the Jews also started making up more and new laws that God did not ordain, this was expoused by Jesus in the New Testement when He rebuked them for their traditions of Men that they followed.
Interested, I understand the guys on that board are bitter and I understand why. But the point is, if their going to make bold statments about God and how they think He is mean and cruel they better back them up when confronted or shut up.
How is it any different If I were to say, Yes I know interested, She's a slut, Sleeps around with everyone for money and drugs, the guys brag about how they like the fact she has false teeth. If I were to say that over and over no matter how much you tell me I am wrong and why, it would get to the point that you would call me a liar and even threaten to sue me for slander.
Why is it I canot say that stuff unless I can back it up, but you guys can claim things about God and when proven wrong you remain silent unless your only telling false things about God again.
ps, Nicole, as to the laws the bigger point wa/is, the Atheists are claiming we must live every law to the letter and call us hyprocites if we dont. My point was, all the laws are summed up in two, Love God and love your neighbor, but despite that, they keep going back and harping on keeping the laws, they ignore out right the new way of doing it, and they ignore the fact that we are now under grace not the law. Rick b
Well it would be easy to discredit your slander against me because I exist. I'm here I can show my self and deny it.
You believe in the bible. You hold it as divine. Those who have stated things about your god are stated quotes from your bible. I think that is backing up what they say. It's you bible not ours.
interested said Those who have stated things about your god are stated quotes from your bible. I think that is backing up what they say. It's you bible not ours.
Here is the problem, and you refuse to answer this question. You only give partial verses and PURPOSLY leave things out.
I'm not saying dont read the Bible or dont quote from it, or even believe it. I'm saying, grow up, be honest and stop lying to people by only giving out part of the info. Why is that so hard to do, Why will you not answer that question? You guys have been called on it many times, yet you still give out partial quotes, then you cry about me saying your a liar and being dectiful, but you do nothing to change it.
Plus you say your real so you can defend your self against any lies I send your way. Sorry but it's not as easy as you say, the evidence is, every year many big name celebs go to court and sue people for slandering their name and making money off of lie, So no even with you, I could ruin your name among many people. And thats a fact because it is always making the news. Rick b
Rick you have crossed my line...you and I do not communicate. Sorry I'm done.
If you say I am wrong then show me how I am wrong, you might not like what I say, but you cannot prove that what I say is false. I have called you out over and over and you never once refuted what I said, This proves it. Also just like the guys on the em moron board they refuse to be honest also. If you going to claim your a moral and honest person then the proof is on you. Rick b
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