- It's an unknown pure and simple. (This is the atheist mindset.)
- It's a UFO, a flying saucer and I believe this is evidence for visiting aliens. (This is the believer mindset.)
- It was most definitely and alien craft....I didn't see the aliens up close but I believe. (This is the fundamentalists mindset)
- Without knowledge of the sky...it is impossible to make a determination. (This is the agnostic mindset)
Although I have paraphrased, I think one can understand the idea. I do not completely agree with all that he writes but Stahl has given me much food for thought as I continue on my journey. It seems that each of us, if not predisposed, develop a mindset that guides us through life.
He writes of his youth in the Catholic church and how he found his way out. His story is like many others I've read over the years and not entirely unlike mine. He states that children are blank slates and natural questioners....yes, but what happens to that natural nature when religion becomes the daily diet? The are taught to close up and not question.
What a tragedy.
41 comments:
Interested said, It's a UFO, a flying saucer and I believe this is evidence for visiting aliens. (This is the believer mindset.)
When you say, the Believers mindset, Are you speaking of Christians?
Because I do not believe in Aliens or UFO's, and I do not know one Christian that does Either, Not to say that their are not any. They were just speaking about Aliens the other day on the Raido, I called up to say I do not believe in them.
My Mom and Dad are like You, they are Athiests, yet they Do believe in Aliens, and they get mad at me for say they do not exist.
Also I love how you said in Former Topics, Rick Give us evidence for God and the Bible from Sources other than the Bible, I do, You as always say, it's not good enough and then shut down the Topic. So that shows me you really do not want to hear the truth.
I give evidence, you give Zero reason why is is lacking, and I bet you did not even read it, then shut down the topic. So that is why I say you really do not want to hear the truth. Rick b
The question of the existence of life on other planets is only speculative; I prefer to be agnostic with regards to the subject of aliens.
What are the chances, however, that life exist in other solar systems? Pretty good, I will say. There are at least a billion billion galaxies out there; if only 0.1% of this are conducive to life, then we are talking about millions of galaxies brimming with life.
But of course, its all speculative. If I'd see an unknown flying object in the sky, I'd most like attribute it to natural, Earth-based phenomenon.
Beast
Rick I am still looking for that evidence you say you provided. What evidence outside the bible? I am still waiting so if you provided it I missed it. Can you please do so once more? No sermon just book and page where I can read a source other than the bible, then we'll talk again.
I gave you links but I guess you did not read what I wrote so you missed them. so I cut and pasted stuff for you.
If you read what I have and it is not enough then add this.
For more details of the historical and scientific evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Habermas, Gary R. Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1984.
here you are.
ANCIENT NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES
Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD):
"Because the Jews of Rome caused continous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from the city."
"After the great fire at Rome [during Nero's reign] ... Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief."
Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian:
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." (Arabic translation)
Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion:
"Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me." [A solar eclipse could not take place during a full moon, as was the case during Passover season.]
Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD:
"[The Christians] were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind." Pliny added that Christianity attracted persons of all societal ranks, all ages, both sexes, and from both the city and the country. Late in his letter to Emperor Trajan, Pliny refers to the teachings of Jesus and his followers as excessive and contagious superstition.
Emperor Trajan, in reply to Pliny:
"The method you have pursued, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those denounced to you as Christians is extremely proper. It is not possible to lay down any general rule which can be applied as the fixed standard in all cases of this nature. No search should be made for these people; when they are denounced and found guilty they must be punished; with the restriction, however, that when the party denies himself to be a Christian, and shall give proof that he is not (that is, by adoring our gods) he shall be pardoned on the ground of repentance, even though he may have formerly incurred suspicion. Informations without the accuser's name subscribed must not be admitted in evidence against anyone, as it is introducing a very dangerous precedent, and by no means agreeable to the spirit of the age."
Emporer Hadrian (117-138 AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the Asian proconsul:
"I do not wish, therefore, that the matter should be passed by without examination, so that these men may neither be harassed, nor opportunity of malicious proceedings be offered to informers. If, therefore, the provincials can clearly evince their charges against the Christians, so as to answer before the tribunal, let them pursue this course only, but not by mere petitions, and mere outcries against the Christians. For it is far more proper, if anyone would bring an accusation, that you should examine it." Hadrian further explained that if Christians were found guilty they should be judged "according to the heinousness of the crime." If the accusers were only slandering the believers, then those who inaccurately made the charges were to be punished.
The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD:
"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."
[Another early reference in the Talmud speaks of five of Jesus's disciples and recounts their standing before judges who make individual decisions about each one, deciding that they should be executed. However, no actual deaths are recorded.]
Lucian, a second century Greek satirist:
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. ... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property." Lucian also reported that the Christians had "sacred writings" which were frequently read. When something affected them, "they spare no trouble, no expense."
Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past:
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burying Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."
GNOSTICS SOURCES
The Gospel of Truth, probably by Valentius, around 135-160 AD:
"For when they had seen him and had heard him, he granted them to taste him and to smell him and to touch the beloved Son. When he had appeared instructing them about the Father. ... For he came by means of fleshly appearance." Other passages affirm that the Son of God came in the flesh and "the Word came into the midst. ... it became a body."
"Jesus, was patient in accepting sufferings. . . since he knows that his death is life for many. . . . he was nailed to a tree; he published the edict of the Father on the cross. ... He draws himself down to death through life. ... eternal clothes him. Having stripped himself of the perishable rags, he put on imperishability, which no one can possibly take away from him."
The Aprocryphon of John, probably by Saturninus, around 120-130 AD:
"It happened one day when John, the brother of James,--who are the sons of Zebedee--went up and came to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius approached him and said to him, `Where is your master whom you followed?' And he said to him, 'He has gone to the place from which he came.' The Pharisee said to him, 'This Nazarene deceived you with deception and filled your ears with lies and closed your hearts and turned you from the traditions of your fathers.'"
The Gospel of Thomas, probably from 140-200 AD:
Contain many references to and alleged quotations of Jesus.
The Treatise On Resurrection, by uncertain author of the late second century, to Rheginos:
"The Lord ... existed in flesh and ... revealed himself as Son of God ... Now the Son of God, Rheginos, was Son of Man. He embraced them both, possessing the humanity and the divinity, so that on the one hand he might vanquish death through his being Son of God, and that on the other through the Son of Man the restoration to the Pleroma might occur; because he was originally from above, a seed of the Truth, before this structure of the cosmos had come into being."
"For we have known the Son of Man, and we have believed that he rose from among the dead. This is he of whom we say, 'He became the destruction of death, as he is a great one in whom they believe.' Great are those who believe."
"The Savior swallowed up death. ... He transformed himself into an imperishable Aeon and raised himself up, having swallowed the visible by the invisible, and he gave us the way of our immortality."
"Do not think the resurrection is an illusion. It is no illusion, but it is truth. Indeed, it is more fitting to say that the world is an illusion, rather than the resurrection which has come into being through our Lord the Savior, Jesus Christ."
". . . already you have the resurrection ... why not consider yourself as risen and already brought to this?" Rheginos was thus encouraged not to "continue as if you are to die."
LOST WORKS QUOTED IN OTHER SOURCES
Acts of Pontius Pilate, reports sent from Pilate to Tiberius, referred to by Justin Martyr (150 AD):
"And the expression, 'They pierced my hands and my feet,' was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after he was crucified, they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among them. And that these things did happen you can ascertain the 'Acts' of Pontius Pilate." Later Justin lists several healing miracles and asserts, "And that He did those things, you can learn from the Acts of Pontius Pilate."
Phlegon, born about 80 AD, as reported by Origen (185-254 AD), mentioned that Jesus made certain predictions which had been fulfilled.
ANCIENT CHRISTIAN SOURCES
(extra-biblical)
Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD):
"The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe."
Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter to the Trallians (110-115 AD):
"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead, His Father having raised Him, who in the like fashion will so raise us also who believe on Him."
Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD):
"He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh, but Son of God by the Divine will and power, truly born of a virgin and baptised by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch (of which fruit are we--that is, of his most blessed passion); that He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection."
"For I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the resurrection; and when He came to Peter and his company, He said to them, 'Lay hold and handle me, and see that I am not a demon without body.' And straightway they touched him, and they believed, being joined unto His flesh and His blood. Wherefore also they despised death, nay they were found superior to death. And after His resurrection He ate with them and drank with them."
Ignatius, letter to the Magnesians (110-115 AD):
"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection, which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate; for these things were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope."
Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian about 125 AD:
"The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when He had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived to our own times."
(Pseudo-)Barnabas, written 130-138 AD:
"He must needs be manifested in the flesh. ... He preached teaching Israel and performing so many wonders and miracles, and He loved them exceedingly. ... He chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel. ... But He Himself desired so to suffer; for it was necessary for Him to suffer on a tree."
Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius about 150 AD:
After referring to Jesus's birth of a virgin in the town of Bethlehem, and that His physical line of descent came through the tribe of Judah and the family of Jesse, Justin wrote, "Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, thirty-five stadia from Jerusalem, in which Jesus Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registers of the taxing made under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea."
"Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them, and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles."
Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho, around 150 AD:
"For at the time of His birth, Magi who came from Arabia worshipped Him, coming first to Herod, who then was sovereign in your land."
"For when they crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced His hands and feet; and those who crucified Him parted His garments among themselves, each casting lots for what he chose to have, and receiving according to the decision of the lot."
"Christ said amongst you that He would give the sign of Jonah, exhorting you to repent of your wicked deeds at least after He rose again from the dead ... yet you not only have not repented, after you learned that He rose from the dead, but, as I said before, you have sent chosen and ordained men throughout all the world to proclaim that 'a godless and lawless heresy had sprung from one Jesus, a Galilean deceiver, whom we crucified, but His disciples stole Him by night from the tomb, where He was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that He has risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.'"
"For indeed the Lord remained upon the tree almost until evening, and they buried Him at eventide; then on the third day He rose again."
Josephus wrote and chronicled the lives of no less than 19 Jebuses, some of whom are detailed as follows:
1. Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach (aka 'Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach'), part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom' and Homeric-style heroes.
2. Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (106-79 BC), one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings. Imprudently, this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophesy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree – and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect.
3. Jesus ben Ananias. Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’. He prophesied rather vaguely:
"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people."
– Josephus, Wars 6.3.
Arrested and flogged by the Romans, he was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult.
4. Jesus ben Saphat. In the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee, this Jesus had led the rebels in Tiberias. When the city was about to fall to Vespasian’s legionaries he fled north to Tarichea on the Sea of Galilee.
5. Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’). It did him no good. When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds.
6. Jesus ben Thebuth. A priest who, in the final capitulation of the upper city in 69AD, saved his own skin by surrendering the treasures of the Temple, which included two holy candlesticks, goblets of pure gold, sacred curtains and robes of the high priests. The booty figured prominently in the Triumph held for Vespasian and his son Titus.
7.But was there a crucified Jesus?
Certainly. Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would (quite literally) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history.
So many Jebuses.....Take your pick, Rick.
Beast
Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho, around 150 AD:
"For at the time of His birth, Magi who came from Arabia worshipped Him, coming first to Herod, who then was sovereign in your land."
"For when they crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced His hands and feet; and those who crucified Him parted His garments among themselves, each casting lots for what he chose to have, and receiving according to the decision of the lot."
"Christ said amongst you that He would give the sign of Jonah, exhorting you to repent of your wicked deeds at least after He rose again from the dead ... yet you not only have not repented, after you learned that He rose from the dead, but, as I said before, you have sent chosen and ordained men throughout all the world to proclaim that 'a godless and lawless heresy had sprung from one Jesus, a Galilean deceiver, whom we crucified, but His disciples stole Him by night from the tomb, where He was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that He has risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.'"
"For indeed the Lord remained upon the tree almost until evening, and they buried Him at eventide; then on the third day He rose again."
Rick, how does this writing prove the existence of Jesus as a god-man? There are 2 surviving writings by Justin Martyr but they were written more than 100 years after the biblical death of Jesus. Justin Martyr seemed to be a believer much as you and he went about trying to convert pagans to Christianity but he is not a witness to the birth, the life or the death of the biblical Jesus.
I understand that in your mind these are all good sources. But what they seem to prove is that many people had told the stories enough that many others wrote the same stories. So in that sense I'm sure the writings are a source of folklore passed down for centuries. But I still can't see how this would make the case for a one true man-god.
Rick, I would really like to believe. When I lost my faith it was like a missing arm but as hard as I try I cannot see any truth in the biblical stories of Jesus, many which are repeated in the quotes you provided written by others.
http://atheisthaven.blogspot.com/2008/09/lesson-in-piety-story-of-job.html
Herein lies the core of my non-belief with regards to Jebus:
1. Unlike other historical figures, Jebus didn't leave any personal writings behind (Unlike Julius Caesar, who actually chronicled his campaigns, particularly in far-flung edges of his empire to illicit support from the Roman elite).
2. None of the accounts of Jebus was written when he was alive; most of the writings that surfaced were centuries after his death, thus hinting fabrication.His 13 disciples also didn't seem very educated, judging from the dearth of writings from his disciples.
3. Joseph ben Yeshua (Which would most likely be his name, translated to mean son of Joseph), not Joseph, would have been his likely name. But it doesn't appear in the Roman Census. Neither the throngs of Jebus written by Josephus (The closest accounts of Jerusalem close enough to match Jebus's timeline, despite decades after his death) nor messiah like characters during that era closely matched that of the mythical Jebus, although a couple of them did perform stupid circus tricks (like walking on water. Oh, I remember, Copperfield actually flew. )
In conclusion, there is little besides the bible to suggest that Jebus really existed, but even if we assume that he did exist, he would have been no more capable than a carpenter who sucked at his job (hence changing his job from full time furniture maker to messiah).
Beast
Beast, I agree with You Jebus does not Exist, So why are you trying so hard to convince me of this.
Now on the other Hand, Jesus does exist, and for a Guy that claims to not believe in him, you sure try and avoid him a lot.
Rick b
Note:
The term "Jebus" is actually a parody of Jesus. It first appeared on the Sitcom cartoon series, "The Simpsons".
Instead of arguing over mere trivialities, I would expect a man of faith the likes of you to respond more rigorously, trying to prove us infidels wrong. Instead you get caught up over one stupid word.
Not very rational, my friend. BTW you might want to go over my blog and check out what I wrote about the biblical character, Job. Its pretty interesting.
Beast
Beast,
no matter what I say, you do not want to hear the truth, no matter what I post for evidence you will simply find a way to deny it. so I do not bother trying as hard as you might think. also I know if is a parody name, but I figure if you post the wrong name, then I will simply agree with you, the guy you speak of is not real. Rick b
Rick:
Somehow I find it almost laughable that you claim sole ownership to "truth", considering that whatever you have spewed so far is doctrine (and most of it false) rather than "truth".
If you think spending time and pouring through the bible gives you enough authority to claim for yourself the title "the sole bastion of truth", you might be in for a rude awakening.
As for the fracas regarding Jebus , feel free to ignore the issue. You have just lost the initiative.
Beast
Beast:
Somehow I find it almost laughable that you claim sole ownership to "truth", considering that whatever you have spewed so far is your doctrine (and most of it false) rather than "truth".
If you think spending time and pouring through books on evolution written by people who were not alive to see it happen gives you enough authority to claim for yourself the title "the sole bastion of truth", you might be in for a rude awakening.
As for the fracas regarding Jesus , feel free to ignore the issue. You have just lost the initiative.
Rick
I knew their were hot lines people can call if they want prayer.
I just found out their our hot lines for atheists, the only problem is, if you call them, no one will answer. rick b
Lol
Rick, I find it quite ludicrous that Christians often use the "I must be there to witness it otherwise it is a fraud" argument against biologists who study evolution. Why don't you guys apply your same strict decorum on your own religions?
Were you there when Jebus got his ass nailed on the cross? Apparently not. Why, then, do you believe?
As for prayer hotlines, lolz, I don't need them. Perhaps you do, feel free to call them, at your own expenses of course.
Double Lolz
Beast
Beast,
do you know who Kent Hovind is? I suspect you do. I am told he challanged 50 of the top evolution scientists and all refused.
I am also told he has a 1/4 million dollar challange, he will hand over that much money to who ever can provide the evidence like fossils that prove evolution. can you or any one else provide this evidence? rick b
Beast, you and others believe in people you never met, because their are books called "history" books that have either been written by them or by eye witness accounts.
we have history to prove Jesus existed, yet no evidence of the big bang.
then interested says, science is valid because science can "prove" things, yet science cannot prove the big bang, science cannot create the big bang in a lab, so their is ZERO evidence for what you believe, yet you choose to go on blind faith that a big bang happened. Rick b
LOL!
This has got to be the biggest lol ever.....the last I heard Kent Hovind is serving time in federal prison for tax evasion.....talk about a multi million dollar challenge!!!!
LOL Again
Beast
Well, Rick, if you are so disgruntled with Science I suggest you pack your stuff, leave your homes and computers, and try staying in the mountains.
Almost everything you own today, from your fridge to your laptop, is a work of ingenuity, a legacy of the Great Industrial Revolution and subsequently modern Science.
The day you do that, you are qualified to insult scientists. Otherwise, you are just another hypocritical Christian who will always attribute the wonders of Science to God and the stuff you don't understand the work of evil scientists and the Devil.
Beast
Rick
If you have spent time in a metallurgy lab, or any kind of science lab, and spend hours and hours pouring through tons of research, writing fucking thesis papers and sweating blood and tears, I think you won't be insulting Science like you do.
But there again, I don't blame you. You do not understand the honest endeavor of Science. Unlike religion, people who do Science don't construe evidence to fit in any concept.
Like I said, its obvious that you are a hill billy. And its a shame because America is breeding too many dimwits who think the world is 6000 yrs ago, T-Rexes eat strawberries and a giant flood could carve up Canyons. America is fast losing its edge in Science, and sooner or later China and India will catch up, and its a pity because America used to be at the forefront of Science. Stem cell researchers are increasingly leaving America for more Science-friendly Europe and Asia, physicists involved in the Large Hadron Collider chose France/Switzerland because America chose not to get involved in this great scientific endeavor to learn more about the beginnings of the universe. Why, you ask? Fundies. People who think that we must all live in the Stone Age and worship a fucking God.
Beast
"If you think spending time and pouring through books on evolution written by people who were not alive to see it happen gives you enough authority to claim for yourself the title "the sole bastion of truth", you might be in for a rude awakening."
..uuummmm sounds like what you do Rick. Don't you pour over books on creation written by people who were not alive to see it?
Interesting that it's truth for you but false for Beast.
Well Interested.
I for one will like to witness a strawberry chomping T-Rex, as some Creationists will tell you (before Adam and Eve ate the damn fruit, every damn animal was supposedly vegetarian. LOL!).
Beast
Beast said Almost everything you own today, from your fridge to your laptop, is a work of ingenuity, a legacy of the Great Industrial Revolution and subsequently modern Science.
Funny How the World and Humans and other things are so complex we cannot figure them out, yet they were are by some cosmic accident, yet you admit man created all the things we use in life, they simply did not come about as the result of a big bang. rick b
Lol.
Pardon my ignorance, but what has you moving to the mountains because of your vehemence for science anything to do with the big bang?
Since you hate science so much, why not move to the mountains? live like a stone age moron that you are. No microwaves to make your fancy dishes, no restaurant food, no laptops to disturb atheists, etc.
Go ahead. Prove me wrong. Prove to me that you are not just another Christian hypocrite. MOVE TO THE MOUNTAINS NOW!!!
Beast
Beast said, T-Rexes eat strawberries and a giant flood could carve up Canyons.
Funny How when mount St Helens blew, it spewed lots of water and created a mini grand canyon. scientists we rather shocked that it happened their by proving the flood could have caused the grand canyon.
plus their is evidence of Noah's ark being found.
Point of Note: St Helen's crater was caused by a volcanic eruption, not a flood.
Secondly, the supposed ark at Mt Ararat is obviously a fake. Even if it were a real ark, Christians still have a lot of explaining to do with regards to a global flood.
Beast
Rick
I wrote this about Noah's ark last year.
http://atheisthaven.blogspot.com/2007/05/noahs-ark-flight-of-supernatural-lunacy.html
Beast
Interested, you did a topic but shut it down, it was the Religion or Drugs--Same thing! topic.
This got me thinking all the more that you atheists are such liars and really want to believe lies and really do hate God even though you say, how can we hate something or someone we do not believe in, here is why.
You guys Say you hate Religion, You either hate or strongly dis like Christians for what we believe or sharing our belief's and you dis-like or hate God.
yet even though you claim to hate religion, their are atheist blogs that claim we go to or follow the Church of the F.S.M.
So that is a religion. if you feel church or belief in a god or deity means religion, then I see atheists having a form of belief in both with the church of the F.S.M.
then, take beast, I pointed this out on his blog a long time ago, on his home page, temple of the invincible beastmaster
First off Temples imply Religion and worship, yet you guys claim to hate religion.
Then he claims, IF YOU ARE A DEVOUT FOLLOWER OF THE INVINCIBLE BEASTMASTER, COME ON IN AND PAY YOUR RESPECTS. RULE OF THUMB: FEEL FREE TO DROP YOUR PRAYERS AS AND WHEN YOU WISH TO.UNLIKE MAINSTREAM RELIGIONS, THE TEMPLE OF THE INVINCIBLE DEMANDS NAUGHT FOR TITHES. BLASPHEMY IS ENCOURAGED, SO LONG AS IT IS NOT DIRECTED AGAINST THE BEASTMASTER HIMSELF.
Funny How he says Prayers, I thought you hated and deny prayers, Funny how he says, BLASPHEMY IS ENCOURAGED, SO LONG AS IT IS NOT DIRECTED AGAINST THE BEASTMASTER
Funny how it is ok to do, unless it is to or about Beast, This stuff if you guys are really honest, shows what liars and hypocrites you really are, But I know you guys, you will give reasons as lame as they are as to why in this case, Church of the F.S.M is really not a religion, and Praying in the Beastmastres temple is really not a form of worship or religion.
And you will give lame reasons why, even though you claim to not believe God/Jesus is real, why you go out of your way to speak so much about him, Like on the Atheist Blog (Jesus never existed).
For a guy that did not exist, you sure talk a lot about him and try hard to prove he did not exist.
I dont see people putting the same effort into trying to prove a fat guy in a suit flys around the world giving gifts to good little boys and girls, why is that? So please give your reasons why I am wrong and expose your self for the lying hypocrites you relly are.
Plus let me just throw out a big, I BLASPHEMY you false lying beast. Rick b
PS, Praise to the Creator and only true and Real God, Jesus Christ, who will punish the wicked, And the sooner the better.
I read your fable, It simplys shows how ignorant you are, But thats ok, You simply want to live in darkness.
You say, Noah could not have created the ark, because he did not have enough brains or correct stuff, yet even today, much of the ancient world like the Sphinx and pyramids cannot be explained or even recreated. it blows people away that the pyramids are so tight between layers, we cannot slip a piece of paper in it, yet you claim Noah could not build an ark. Rick b
Rick,
I don't think anyone is trying to prove or disprove the fat guy in the red suit because intelligent adults know that it is a wonderful myth provided when they were children to add spark and mystery to receiving gifts on Christmas. As we grew up some choose to perpetuate the myth with our own children. However we KNOW it is a myth and we help our children understand that as they begin to see it as so. Christians and orther religious parents do not allow their children to do any questioning about the myth of god and jesus, they perpetuate the myth as truth.
Interested said Christians and orther religious parents do not allow their children to do any questioning about the myth of god and jesus, they perpetuate the myth as truth.
It would be nice if what you said was true, but we both know it is not.
I allow my Kids to hear both sides, But I know many adults that let their kids grow up and believe in santa clause, and parents that get pissed if I or my kids tell them santa is not real.
also I know many believers like me who allow their kids to see and hear both sides, but yet the atheist are so closed minded, they only allow their kids and even school kids to hear one side, their side.
so as much as you want to believe your correct, I know we both know better. And like I said, you guys start blogs telling people god does not exist, and you fight tooth and nail, to prove someone that you do not believe exists, but yet a guy who we know does not exist and you admit as much, you raise your kids to believe in him, then lie to them by saying h is real, then get mad at people like me for saying he is false.
that shows me you guys are liar's and choose to live in darkness. rick b
Lol. The temple of the Beastmaster was created to parody religion. It was meant to be satire. Not religion.
As for Noah's ark, you must understand that building an ark and building a pyramid requires different dynamics.
An ark of 300 feet in length, made of wood, is going to leak. When Admiral Zheng He built his junks and circumnavigate the globe, his 200-feet junks required iron brackets at the joints to prevent them from sinking. Are you sure Noah had access to metallurgy?
Beast
"Praise to the Creator and only true and Real God, Jesus Christ, who will punish the wicked, And the sooner the better."
Typical Christian hypocrisy again. While you guys keep harping about God's love on one hand, you will no doubt wish that infidels like myself and Interested be punished for our perceived "wickedness" because we choose not to believe in a cosmic godfather, stone disobedient children or keep housewives closeted in homes simply for the fact that they are women.
There again, perhaps this statement of yours have proven an opinion I have held for a long time: Morons of your irk will blow up busloads of civilians, heathens, Jews and undesirables just like the muslim terrorists because you guys have so much hatred for those that do not share your faith.
Beast
In addition to the beastmaster satire, I also wrote at length how you should go about building your very own religion!!!
http://atheisthaven.blogspot.com/2007/09/part-2-inventing-your-own-religion.html
Beast, I believe even if Metal was not in the Ark, It could be done. I believe if they could create the Sphinx and pyramids and other stuff that we will all our science and so called brains cannot figure out, then yes I believe it.
then when I said I hope God punishes the wicked soon, did I use your name or interested? no I did not, so if you want to believe I was speaking of you, then go right ahead.
do you believe their is wickedness in the world today? look at the people in china making tainted food, they were adding the crap for making money.
what about the tsunami victims, their government refused help and let their people starve. what about the government here in the USA, it is very corrupt and the criminals seem to have more rights and get away with stuff.
then God does show mercy even if I or others want him to punish the wicked, he will not do it just because I want him to.
Plus us christians do not blow us bus loads of people, we do not do that. that is the muslims.
I suppose the church of the F.S.M is satire also? I knew you would give a bogus reply. rick b
Lolz.
1. First of all, the ark. I was from the navy, and I did a mechanical course there so I think I am qualified to comment.
You see, for wooden ships to stay afloat, they have to be watertight up to a certain level; modern ships have bilge pumps to pump out excess water from the bilges, engine rooms, etc.
The problem with the noah's ark is its gigantic size....wooden ships exceeding 300 feet are going to be leaky. I purposely mention Admiral Zheng He's chinese fleet because his ships were the largest in the ancient world, and that too with the help of metal sealants to prevent water seepage. I hope I make this clear enough.
2. You mentioned that Christians don't blow up Jews and civilians, but I think you might have heard of Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Christian bomber, and other abortion clinic bombers who also profess to be Christian.
3. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is obviously a satire desired to mock Christianity and religion. Even a five yr old kid can see through its noodly appendages!
Beast
Considering that none of the Spanish galleons of the Spanish Armada ever exceeded 100 feet, the problems with wooden ships of large sizes cannot be easily mitigated.
Beast
Check out the "Thank Gawd for shit" campaign on my blog.
Beast
Well beast, I believe God can create a ship that is water tight even with out metal.
I know you dont agree or like this answer but, if a so called christian does the things you said, then he is not a real christian, that is no different than me saying I am an athiest, I can say I am anything but that does not make it so.
I was talking to a friend about this blog, he said something that I thought I would run by you. if you really do not believe in God, why do you spend so much time talking about and writting about something you do not believe in?
I do not believe in evloution or santa clause, or the moon being made out of cheese, so I do not spend my life speaking about or blogging about things I do not believe in.
then like interested said, but has not replied yet, she said that us Christians do not tell both sides to our kids, yet like I said to her, you guys keep it one sided, Christians are not fighting in courts to teach only creation, they are willing to allow both sides, where as you guys only allow one side, your side, why is that?
Then as I said to her, you guys do not blog about santa clause, and you do not believe in him, yet many of you atheists teach your kids he is real and exists, so your lying to your kids, knowing he is not real, yet if I or anyone comes along and says, sorry, your mom or dad is lying to you, santa clause is not real, you get pissed.
Why is it, you blog about a person you deny ever existed, but then lie to your kids telling them about a guy you know does not exist yet then get mad at someone for telling them the truth?
plus you never did say if you believe if wickedness is real.
how about lucifer/satan/the devil. do atheists believe he exists?
if not, then why not blog about satan, since we have the satanic bible, followers of satan and the religion of satanism. I do not see atheists attacking lucifer like they do God, that shows me you guys really do hate God even though you say he is not real. rick b
Rick:
If God was any good at making ships, we would not have shipyards in the first place.
You mentioned about teaching "both sides of the debate", ie. Creationism and Evolution. I am not so much against teaching Creationism as a history subject (Scopes Monkey Trial) but not as Science. If every god damned Creationist religious group wants a piece of the Scientific curriculum (Hindus for example believe that the Earth rests on a turtle, which in turn rests on an elephant) then I think the whole point of Science Education is lost.
Your point about blogging about God and not Lucifer is moot. I write not only about Christianity; I have criticized Islam, fengshui and many other things, and in my recent post I also mentioned Lucifer.
You ask why we write about a God we do not believe in, why not Santa? The answer is simple. No one has been killed over the portly gentleman who happens to work only once a year. People do kill over whose God has the longer penis.
Hope I have answered your queries in a more succinct manner. Actually most of it I have already reiterated many times, but you seem not to read it. Hope this is the last time I am repeating this. Its getting long winded.
Beast
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