Why Atheism?

I like this summary of the problems with Pascal's Wager from Godless Geeks.


From "Why Atheism?" by Mark Thomas

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/WhyAtheism.htm

"Pascal’s Wager

There is an argument for belief in God that is called Pascal’s Wager, named for Blaise Pascal who conceived it. The argument goes like this: Either there is a god or there isn’t. If you believe in God, and God exists, then you win big time and go to Heaven. If you don’t believe in God, and God exists, you lose big time and go to Hell. If there is no god, then you haven’t lost much by believing. So the obvious choice is to believe in God, because it’s simply the best bet.

Pascal’s Wager has several faults. The biggest problem is that it’s not a proof of any god’s existence; it’s just an argument for believing, a method of extorting the gullible thru fear. Like many other such arguments we have discussed, it also fails to denote exactly which god it refers to. Pascal’s Wager could be applied to any god that offers rewards and punishments. Taken to the extreme, following the wager would necessitate betting on the god with the worst hell, so it could be avoided. It's impossible to know which god to worship, and which (perhaps jealous) gods to spurn. I doubt if many Christians would convert to Islam if the wager were presented by a Muslim who told them that Muslim Hell is worse than Christian Hell and Muslim Heaven is better than Christian Heaven.

Pascal’s Wager assumes that the chosen god's mind is knowable, and that he doesn't mind people believing in him for explicitly selfish reasons. Perhaps he actually prefers independent thinkers such as atheists, not obsequious followers. Since the Christian god Yahweh is on record as having lied, there's no way to know his intentions. It would be quite possible for a true believer to discover on Judgment Day that the destination was not Heaven. Yahweh, in his infinitely mysterious ways, had other plans; and there would be no appeal or debate with an omnipotent being.

Another problem with Pascal’s Wager is that it implicitly assumes that the odds of the two possibilities are similar. Since the odds of the Christian, Jewish, or Muslim god existing are zero, the wager creates a false dilemma. The wager even goes against the doctrine that many religions have where gambling is sinful. Note also that the existence of the wager and the fact that so many people think that it's relevant illuminate the lack of actual evidence for God.

Pascal’s Wager also depends on the idea that you don’t lose much by believing. This has been false for many who have trusted in their god for help or guidance, instead of seeking reality-based solutions. People have fought, killed and died for their belief in their god. Far too many have died because they (or their parents) chose prayer instead of medicine. Swords, bullets, poison, and poisonous snakes have killed many who thought that they were protected by their god. Even without these more dramatic effects, believers often devote significant time, energy and money to worshipping their god.

Beliefs in a god (and the often concomitant ideas of divine punishment and reward) too often make people more willing to accept inequalities in this life. Low-paid factory workers and slaves were taught that their rewards were in the afterlife, so they should be meek and obedient in this life to ensure their (imaginary) rewards. Even the factory and slave owners could think that they were part of their god's divine plan, and thus deserved their earthly rewards.

God-belief has real expenses that can be large or destructive.

The last problem with Pascal’s Wager is that it completely ignores and even denigrates intellectual integrity and honesty; the wager assumes that people can believe something just because they want to. As an example, let’s talk about belief in Santa Claus. Don’t we have more respect for a child who figures out that Santa doesn’t exist, and says so, rather than continuing to lie so he can get more presents? It’s a sign of growing integrity and maturity for children to stop believing in Santa. Similarly, adults can give up belief in a god when they realize that there’s no real evidence for their god. Christians can quit being “sheep” or “children of god” and become intellectually honest.

The loss of intellectual integrity and honesty engendered by Pascal’s Wager gives some insight into how apparently rational people can behave so irrationally. By accepting the wager, they have (perhaps implicitly) given up these important traits."

Nothing more to talk about

I post this as perhaps the final post about god on this blog because like this video...there isn't anything else to say. Then, who know what mood will strike.

The Big Bang

Okay we need a new thread. I have said before that I cannot argue the big bang theory. I don't claim to believe it, but I also don't disbelieve it. I am waiting to see what else is discovered and what new "proofs" become available. I really do not spend a lot of time thinking about how humanity or the universe came into existence. I am certain that I do not believe in a creator beyond that I cannot say any more about it.

How did I come to this place? I asked questions; hard questions. Why can't I see god, why does he let kids get sick and die, why does he allow bad things to happen? Where is he and why is he hiding? Why is the bible so vulgar and cruel if it is the word of god?

I asked my parents, my ministers anyone who would listen. But I soon realized that no one had the answers to my questions. I realized that I would have to find out for myself. So I began to read...everything. I started with the bible and book about how to read the bible, which I received from my minister. The more I read the bible the more disturbed I became. I was only 12 years old. I needed guidance so I went to one of my teachers for help. She could not answer my questions either.

So I went to the library. It was a small library, only one room and the librarian showed me to the 200's where the books on religion are shelved. I finally knew where to find the answers but they were not there.

I came to my disbelief in gods and all things supernatural by reading and studying many materials, including the bible, the book of Mormon, Will and Ariel Durant's History of Civilization, the work of Joseph Campbell and many others.

It was not a pivotal moment it was a slow process and it took years. I continued to go to church until 1991 when I woke one morning knowing that I would never again doubt myself or depend on others for my answers. I made up my own mind.

Faith...what is it?

Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith,
then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.

- Dan Barker

Last night I watched several episodes of The Athesim Tapes. If you aren't familiar with them they we done by Jonathan Miller for the BBC. He interviews several scientist and avowed atheist and theologians. He is a terrific interviewer but I kept wanting him to ask about faith. He asked for a definition of atheism but not faith....so I am still wanting.

What is it? How can you explain it? How is it defined?

The War Prayer

The War Prayer by Mark Twain is one that invokes deeper thought than at first glance. When I was a college student preparing to become a teacher I was required to make an analysis of the essay, albeit subjective .

I'm not now a praying person but at the time I was struggling with my desire to understand the falsehoods I had discovered in religion and the teachings of my parents. I wanted to believe there was a god watching over me and that he would hear and answer my prayers.

The absurdity of prayer became crystal clear when, as in Twain's work, I took the time to consider the prayer and its implications. The youngest student in science learns early, Newton's third law of motion. Simply stated, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Now consider the act of praying...if, and I don't believe it is possible, there were a god who listened and answered prayers, what kind of god could he be? How would he decide who's prayer is answered?

Perhaps, Christians will say that righteousness wins out, that he who is good and obedient will ultimately, gain their reward. But may I propose:

Country A and Country B are at war.

Two very devout and pious mothers, each righteous and obedient, pray for the success of her son in that war. One, the mother of a soldier fighting for Country A; the other praying for her son from Country B. By all reason they are each deserving but how can they both receive that for which they ask? And, why should they? They are praying two prayers; one articulated to save her son and the unsaid prayer to destroy the other mother's son.

Consequences.....

Let's start a new discussion, what say you all?

It seems to me that the more we discover in our world, the more we can explain, the less necessary the gods become. If one looks at the reason for religiosity and supernatural belief, it is easy to see why it has been and still is, so popular.

So, here is my topic. How would our country differ if religion was truly placed in the background, becoming the minority of the citizenry, rather than the majority?

UFOs & GOD

I have recently begun a Phillip Stahl book "Atheism: A Beginner's Guide". I am about half way through the book and I am struck by a comparison he uses. He begins by asking the reader to imagine seeing something in the night sky. The object does not conform to any known airship. Now how does one respond? He gives 4 choices:

• It's an unknown pure and simple. (This is the atheist mindset.)
• It's a UFO, a flying saucer and I believe this is evidence for visiting aliens. (This is the believer mindset.)
• It was most definitely and alien craft....I didn't see the aliens up close but I believe. (This is the fundamentalists mindset)
• Without knowledge of the sky...it is impossible to make a determination. (This is the agnostic mindset)

Although I have paraphrased, I think one can understand the idea. I do not completely agree with all that he writes but Stahl has given me much food for thought as I continue on my journey. It seems that each of us, if not predisposed, develop a mindset that guides us through life.

He writes of his youth in the Catholic church and how he found his way out. His story is like many others I've read over the years and not entirely unlike mine. He states that children are blank slates and natural questioners....yes, but what happens to that natural nature when religion becomes the daily diet? The are taught to close up and not question.

What a tragedy.