Hello Interested. Well I see with these two show hosts nothing has changed with them. I noticed this video was dated 11/16/08 and this means we are around 4 years later and they are still talking about the same old things. They are again harping on slavery.
The problem with people who keep harping on this issue shows they either dont care what the Bible says and ignores the truth, or they dont know what the Bible says and acts like they do.
Their is a lot in the Video to cover and will take a few posts, and I'm busy today but will add more over the next few days.
Just on the issue of slavery, let me recap what I have said before. Many Jews like people today had lots of debt and could not pay it off, so they willing went into slavery to pay off their debt. Why is this a big deal and how does this prove God is cruel?
If people read the Bible they would find that God said the slaves were set free every 7 years and their debts were cleared. Some people felt that the person they were slaves to had it so much better that they choose to stay with them and not go free. Thats no different than working for someone and getting paid.
Other slaves were taken in war, If some group comes to our land and trys to start a war and kill us, and we take many captive and make them slaves, then I have no problem with that. That is the price for war. The other option would be, Death. So would they rather live as slaves, or be put to death?
I believe people would choose slavery over death, I say that because when I was a teenager growing up and we thought Russia would go to war with us, Many people had a saying, It was, Better Red than Dead. Meaning they would rather be a slave to Russia than dead.
Also now a days we no longer take slaves in war, or go to foreign country and take slaves, so to keep crying about slavery in the Bible is lame.
I know many atheists that think abortion is wrong, or think prostitution and the way women in porn are treated, or the KKK treats people, or a whole host of other issues. Yet these atheists never blog and do videos and keep going on about issues like those. Why not argue over things that are going on today and do matter, instead of harping on something that happened over 2,000 years ago and is no longer going on today.
Ok, These two people running the show really should be banned from doing this show, since they have no clue what they are talking about and acting as if they do.
Here is the problem with what they said. They claim it is immoral for God to require a blood sacrifice and kill someone.
Here is why they are ignorant or liars. If they really know the Bible as they claim they do, then they would know the Bible teaches Jesus IS GOD. So God Himself came in the form of a man and died in our place. He sacrificed Himself and died on a cross for us.
God the Father did not ask some human to die for us, or God did not Just kill some average person.
Now if they did not know this, then they are completely ignorant and have no clue what they are talking about and therefore need to go off the air.
So again as a recap, they either know these things and are purposely not telling anyone this, and that makes them liars and deceitful, Or they dont know this stuff and since they dont know what they are talking about, they need to stop acting as if they do know.
The one thing they are correct about is this, If God so wanted he could have said, I will forgive everyone and leave it at that. But here is the part that they are wrong again about.
As far as they are concerned it would be a lose, lose for God no matter what He does. If he simply says I will just forgive everyone and leave it at that, then some people would complain thats not fair, they dont think a person like Hitler should simply be forgiven with no cost.
If God said, you can repent but it costs money, then the people who cannot afford to pay would complain. If God said, you can work your way into heaven then the people who dont have the ability to do the works required would complain.
So no matter what, some one will complain about the way God set it up. Then add to the issue of Jesus sacrificing HIMSELF for us, the Bible says that we are saved by Grace alone, not by works lest anyone should boast.
God set it up so He would die for us, then after that all we need to do to be saved is for us to believe He died for us. That is so easy that anyone can do it. Plus when the Bible says, we would boast, it is talking about how we all will sit here and brag about who did what to be saved it is not what we did and how hard we worked to be saved, it is what Jesus did for us.
I would like to add to the issue of Jesus dying for us.
If all they can do is complain and say it is wrong that someone died for us, they will they then complain about all the people down through the years that have died for others?
Body guards dying for people, Secret service dying for people, A person in the military jumps on a bomb and kills himself to save his friends, a husband dying to save his wife, or a father dying while trying to save his child? Please tell me how this is different than God dying to save us?
Also they fail to mention, God told Adam and Eve, if you eat from the fruit of the tree you will DIE. They did it anyway, and as a result died spiritually and later physically and were doomed to hell, But God in His great love for us knew this would happen and according to the Bible had the lamb of God sacrificed before the foundation of the world. So He died for us before we were even created and put on the earth.
If you choose to reject His death for you, then thats fine, you can choose to believe what you want, but you cannot say, He is not loving, when all the evidence points to the fact He is.
Matt was telling the caller that he Hopes we are more moral than the generation before us.
Well I gotta say, Matt must really be ignorant and really does not want to know, and does not read the local news papers.
Check out this Video on you tube by Paul Harvey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Az0okaHig
If the Link does not work, the video is called, If I were the devil.
Everything Paul said has come to pass and is happening. Also I'm sure your aware of this, But look at all the violence getting worse and worse in schools and the drug abuse as the years go on. Back in the 50 and 60 the biggest "crimes" in school were chewing gum, talking back to the teacher, skipping class and things like that.
Now they remove the Bible from schools and replace it with Metal detectors, major drug abuse, and much worse.
Please explain in light off all the school shootings, foreign countries trying to make nukes and flat out tell us, they want to destroy us, the terrorism attacks, the amount off people being put in jail, just exactly how are we getting more and more Moral as Matt seems to say we are?
-I would not have expected them to change since they have been doing this for some time.
It is not only unfair but ineffective for you to continue to claim that the people you disagree with do not know or do not care what the bible says. Many people who are considered Christians do not agree on the interpetation of the bible. I remember you saying somethin like "they are not Christians" but they think they are and they are as sure of their beliefs as you are of yours.
I think you take on slavery in the bible is a whitewash. The majority of slaves in the bible were not paying off debt, it seems that you are again just picking the parts of the bible you agree with. And I don't care how good the master treats the slave, he would still prefer to be free. I am so stunned by you remarks about slaves taken in war that I cannot comment. I am certianly glad that your opinion is in the minority. People might indeed choose slavery over death but I don't see how that justifies enslaving a fellow human being.
-Crying about slavery? harping about something that happened 2000 years ago? No, I think you missed the point...the point was to the rightousness of the bible and the benevolence of its god.
"These two people" do have a clue. YOu do not agree with their opinion and that is your right but to continue to call them clueless is ludicrous, and makes you look rather riduculous.
What is the sacrifice when Jesus is god and god sent himself to die on the cross knowing that he would then rise and go to heaven to continue to be god? Please tell me what is the sacrifice? If I was told that I could hang on a cross, die on Friday, go into a cave for a few hours and then rise to live forever in paradise...well where do I sign up. That is NO sacrafice and it is absurd to say that it is.
So, lets talk about Hitler; he was a cruel and wicked person by most accounts. He was a Roman Catholic so let's suppose that on the last day before he died he met a born again Christian and he accepted Jesus as his Saviour and was clensed of all his sins (which are many by any account) he would go to heaven when he died, right? Now suppose I, who has never commited murder, robbed a store, bank or house and generally lived a good life, dies. By your belief, I go to hell. Where is the morality in that? I have heard your take on it, that if I refuse to believe and accept Christ as Saviour then that is my punishment but it is immoral by my standards to punish anyone for their belief. That is why this country was founded to protect each person as an individual regardless of their belief and to provide equality "to the least among us". That is moral and righteous.
"These two people" do have a clue. YOu do not agree with their opinion and that is your right but to continue to call them clueless is ludicrous, and makes you look rather riduculous.
What is the sacrifice when Jesus is god and god sent himself to die on the cross knowing that he would then rise and go to heaven to continue to be god? Please tell me what is the sacrifice? If I was told that I could hang on a cross, die on Friday, go into a cave for a few hours and then rise to live forever in paradise...well where do I sign up. That is NO sacrafice and it is absurd to say that it is.
So, lets talk about Hitler; he was a cruel and wicked person by most accounts. He was a Roman Catholic so let's suppose that on the last day before he died he met a born again Christian and he accepted Jesus as his Saviour and was clensed of all his sins (which are many by any account) he would go to heaven when he died, right? Now suppose I, who has never commited murder, robbed a store, bank or house and generally lived a good life, dies. By your belief, I go to hell. Where is the morality in that? I have heard your take on it, that if I refuse to believe and accept Christ as Saviour then that is my punishment but it is immoral by my standards to punish anyone for their belief. That is why this country was founded to protect each person as an individual regardless of their belief and to provide equality "to the least among us". That is moral and righteous.
"Please explain in light off all the school shootings, foreign countries trying to make nukes and flat out tell us, they want to destroy us, the terrorism attacks, the amount off people being put in jail, just exactly how are we getting more and more Moral as Matt seems to say we are?"
I wish I could explain it but anything I could come up with would seem to undermine my own opinion. I cannot speak for Matt and do not know what he meant but I would like to think that our laws, which are based on our morals are evolving to better protect us and provide human rights to "the least among us". In my lifetime apartheid has ended in South Africa, the Middle East is working its way to more democracy, the Soviet Union is no more and the wall is down. In my mind that is progress of morality.
Children have done so many terrible things and I will not deny it. The is no but...because it is a shame what is happened in our schools. However, I do not see that leaving prayer and bibles in schools would make any difference, in fact, many of those terrible incidents are by children from good "religious" homes.
I respect your right to teach your children as you see fit but it is not the states responsibility to teach religious principles in public schools. Even if they did, whose principles would they teach, Christian (551 different brands) Muslim, Jewish, ????? It is best that we have a sever separation of Church and State lest everyone be offended.
Now to something more pleasant: I have finally retired! I have spent a few weeks getting everything in order but I hope to be back in full force and blogging more often. I look forward to more debate and more time to discuss it.
Hello Interested, Let me first say, Congrats on being retired. I will reply as I can when you reply, or post new topics, but I am really busy, partly with work, and just life in general.
As far as the slave issue, It's not like it was just Jews who took people as slaves. Many countries and many other people groups took other people as slaves.
As to the issue of war, regardless of who attacked who, slaves were taken in war, and that might bother you, but it does not bother me. I figure if you attack me as a person, or my family as a whole, you you die or are taken as a slave, well then, I guess you should have not attacked me or my family or people.
As far as Jesus dying and you saying, that was not a sacrifice because He died and rose again, how is that a sacrifice?
It still was because Not only did he still Die, was still beaten, still had His beard plucked out, and he was beaten so badly and His skin ripped from his body to the point that you could not tell he was a human.
But the Bible says He will have the scars for the rest of eternity. So He did pay a huge price for us and will have to live with that forever.
He did not need to do that, He simply could allowed us all to go to Hell.
12 comments:
Hello Interested.
Well I see with these two show hosts nothing has changed with them. I noticed this video was dated 11/16/08 and this means we are around 4 years later and they are still talking about the same old things. They are again harping on slavery.
The problem with people who keep harping on this issue shows they either dont care what the Bible says and ignores the truth, or they dont know what the Bible says and acts like they do.
Their is a lot in the Video to cover and will take a few posts, and I'm busy today but will add more over the next few days.
Just on the issue of slavery, let me recap what I have said before. Many Jews like people today had lots of debt and could not pay it off, so they willing went into slavery to pay off their debt. Why is this a big deal and how does this prove God is cruel?
If people read the Bible they would find that God said the slaves were set free every 7 years and their debts were cleared. Some people felt that the person they were slaves to had it so much better that they choose to stay with them and not go free. Thats no different than working for someone and getting paid.
Other slaves were taken in war, If some group comes to our land and trys to start a war and kill us, and we take many captive and make them slaves, then I have no problem with that. That is the price for war. The other option would be, Death. So would they rather live as slaves, or be put to death?
I believe people would choose slavery over death, I say that because when I was a teenager growing up and we thought Russia would go to war with us, Many people had a saying, It was, Better Red than Dead. Meaning they would rather be a slave to Russia than dead.
Also now a days we no longer take slaves in war, or go to foreign country and take slaves, so to keep crying about slavery in the Bible is lame.
I know many atheists that think abortion is wrong, or think prostitution and the way women in porn are treated, or the KKK treats people, or a whole host of other issues. Yet these atheists never blog and do videos and keep going on about issues like those. Why not argue over things that are going on today and do matter, instead of harping on something that happened over 2,000 years ago and is no longer going on today.
Ok,
These two people running the show really should be banned from doing this show, since they have no clue what they are talking about and acting as if they do.
Here is the problem with what they said. They claim it is immoral for God to require a blood sacrifice and kill someone.
Here is why they are ignorant or liars. If they really know the Bible as they claim they do, then they would know the Bible teaches Jesus IS GOD. So God Himself came in the form of a man and died in our place. He sacrificed Himself and died on a cross for us.
God the Father did not ask some human to die for us, or God did not Just kill some average person.
Now if they did not know this, then they are completely ignorant and have no clue what they are talking about and therefore need to go off the air.
So again as a recap, they either know these things and are purposely not telling anyone this, and that makes them liars and deceitful, Or they dont know this stuff and since they dont know what they are talking about, they need to stop acting as if they do know.
The one thing they are correct about is this, If God so wanted he could have said, I will forgive everyone and leave it at that. But here is the part that they are wrong again about.
As far as they are concerned it would be a lose, lose for God no matter what He does. If he simply says I will just forgive everyone and leave it at that, then some people would complain thats not fair, they dont think a person like Hitler should simply be forgiven with no cost.
If God said, you can repent but it costs money, then the people who cannot afford to pay would complain. If God said, you can work your way into heaven then the people who dont have the ability to do the works required would complain.
So no matter what, some one will complain about the way God set it up. Then add to the issue of Jesus sacrificing HIMSELF for us, the Bible says that we are saved by Grace alone, not by works lest anyone should boast.
God set it up so He would die for us, then after that all we need to do to be saved is for us to believe He died for us. That is so easy that anyone can do it. Plus when the Bible says, we would boast, it is talking about how we all will sit here and brag about who did what to be saved it is not what we did and how hard we worked to be saved, it is what Jesus did for us.
I would like to add to the issue of Jesus dying for us.
If all they can do is complain and say it is wrong that someone died for us, they will they then complain about all the people down through the years that have died for others?
Body guards dying for people, Secret service dying for people, A person in the military jumps on a bomb and kills himself to save his friends, a husband dying to save his wife, or a father dying while trying to save his child? Please tell me how this is different than God dying to save us?
Also they fail to mention, God told Adam and Eve, if you eat from the fruit of the tree you will DIE. They did it anyway, and as a result died spiritually and later physically and were doomed to hell, But God in His great love for us knew this would happen and according to the Bible had the lamb of God sacrificed before the foundation of the world. So He died for us before we were even created and put on the earth.
If you choose to reject His death for you, then thats fine, you can choose to believe what you want, but you cannot say, He is not loving, when all the evidence points to the fact He is.
Matt was telling the caller that he Hopes we are more moral than the generation before us.
Well I gotta say, Matt must really be ignorant and really does not want to know, and does not read the local news papers.
Check out this Video on you tube by Paul Harvey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Az0okaHig
If the Link does not work, the video is called, If I were the devil.
Everything Paul said has come to pass and is happening. Also I'm sure your aware of this, But look at all the violence getting worse and worse in schools and the drug abuse as the years go on. Back in the 50 and 60 the biggest "crimes" in school were chewing gum, talking back to the teacher, skipping class and things like that.
Now they remove the Bible from schools and replace it with Metal detectors, major drug abuse, and much worse.
Please explain in light off all the school shootings, foreign countries trying to make nukes and flat out tell us, they want to destroy us, the terrorism attacks, the amount off people being put in jail, just exactly how are we getting more and more Moral as Matt seems to say we are?
-I would not have expected them to change since they have been doing this for some time.
It is not only unfair but ineffective for you to continue to claim that the people you disagree with do not know or do not care what the bible says. Many people who are considered Christians do not agree on the interpetation of the bible. I remember you saying somethin like "they are not Christians" but they think they are and they are as sure of their beliefs as you are of yours.
I think you take on slavery in the bible is a whitewash. The majority of slaves in the bible were not paying off debt, it seems that you are again just picking the parts of the bible you agree with. And I don't care how good the master treats the slave, he would still prefer to be free. I am so stunned by you remarks about slaves taken in war that I cannot comment. I am certianly glad that your opinion is in the minority. People might indeed choose slavery over death but I don't see how that justifies enslaving a fellow human being.
-Crying about slavery? harping about something that happened 2000 years ago? No, I think you missed the point...the point was to the rightousness of the bible and the benevolence of its god.
"These two people" do have a clue. YOu do not agree with their opinion and that is your right but to continue to call them clueless is ludicrous, and makes you look rather riduculous.
What is the sacrifice when Jesus is god and god sent himself to die on the cross knowing that he would then rise and go to heaven to continue to be god? Please tell me what is the sacrifice? If I was told that I could hang on a cross, die on Friday, go into a cave for a few hours and then rise to live forever in paradise...well where do I sign up. That is NO sacrafice and it is absurd to say that it is.
So, lets talk about Hitler; he was a cruel and wicked person by most accounts. He was a Roman Catholic so let's suppose that on the last day before he died he met a born again Christian and he accepted Jesus as his Saviour and was clensed of all his sins (which are many by any account) he would go to heaven when he died, right? Now suppose I, who has never commited murder, robbed a store, bank or house and generally lived a good life, dies. By your belief, I go to hell. Where is the morality in that? I have heard your take on it, that if I refuse to believe and accept Christ as Saviour then that is my punishment but it is immoral by my standards to punish anyone for their belief. That is why this country was founded to protect each person as an individual regardless of their belief and to provide equality "to the least among us". That is moral and righteous.
"These two people" do have a clue. YOu do not agree with their opinion and that is your right but to continue to call them clueless is ludicrous, and makes you look rather riduculous.
What is the sacrifice when Jesus is god and god sent himself to die on the cross knowing that he would then rise and go to heaven to continue to be god? Please tell me what is the sacrifice? If I was told that I could hang on a cross, die on Friday, go into a cave for a few hours and then rise to live forever in paradise...well where do I sign up. That is NO sacrafice and it is absurd to say that it is.
So, lets talk about Hitler; he was a cruel and wicked person by most accounts. He was a Roman Catholic so let's suppose that on the last day before he died he met a born again Christian and he accepted Jesus as his Saviour and was clensed of all his sins (which are many by any account) he would go to heaven when he died, right? Now suppose I, who has never commited murder, robbed a store, bank or house and generally lived a good life, dies. By your belief, I go to hell. Where is the morality in that? I have heard your take on it, that if I refuse to believe and accept Christ as Saviour then that is my punishment but it is immoral by my standards to punish anyone for their belief. That is why this country was founded to protect each person as an individual regardless of their belief and to provide equality "to the least among us". That is moral and righteous.
"Please explain in light off all the school shootings, foreign countries trying to make nukes and flat out tell us, they want to destroy us, the terrorism attacks, the amount off people being put in jail, just exactly how are we getting more and more Moral as Matt seems to say we are?"
I wish I could explain it but anything I could come up with would seem to undermine my own opinion. I cannot speak for Matt and do not know what he meant but I would like to think that our laws, which are based on our morals are evolving to better protect us and provide human rights to "the least among us". In my lifetime apartheid has ended in South Africa, the Middle East is working its way to more democracy, the Soviet Union is no more and the wall is down. In my mind that is progress of morality.
Children have done so many terrible things and I will not deny it. The is no but...because it is a shame what is happened in our schools. However, I do not see that leaving prayer and bibles in schools would make any difference, in fact, many of those terrible incidents are by children from good "religious" homes.
I respect your right to teach your children as you see fit but it is not the states responsibility to teach religious principles in public schools. Even if they did, whose principles would they teach, Christian (551 different brands) Muslim, Jewish, ????? It is best that we have a sever separation of Church and State lest everyone be offended.
Now to something more pleasant: I have finally retired! I have spent a few weeks getting everything in order but I hope to be back in full force and blogging more often. I look forward to more debate and more time to discuss it.
And...after reading over my comments...well, I really can spell. But in my defense, I have a new keyboard and it is not following my commands!!
Hello Interested,
Let me first say, Congrats on being retired. I will reply as I can when you reply, or post new topics, but I am really busy, partly with work, and just life in general.
As far as the slave issue, It's not like it was just Jews who took people as slaves. Many countries and many other people groups took other people as slaves.
As to the issue of war, regardless of who attacked who, slaves were taken in war, and that might bother you, but it does not bother me. I figure if you attack me as a person, or my family as a whole, you you die or are taken as a slave, well then, I guess you should have not attacked me or my family or people.
As far as Jesus dying and you saying, that was not a sacrifice because He died and rose again, how is that a sacrifice?
It still was because Not only did he still Die, was still beaten, still had His beard plucked out, and he was beaten so badly and His skin ripped from his body to the point that you could not tell he was a human.
But the Bible says He will have the scars for the rest of eternity. So He did pay a huge price for us and will have to live with that forever.
He did not need to do that, He simply could allowed us all to go to Hell.
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