Thursday, November 5, 2009

Atheist Campaign

Similar to the bus campaign in London; 100 of these signs will be on Seatle buses beginning November. I'm sure it will get the christians in an uproar. However, the point is that the manger and the wisemen have had their time on the buses. It's about time we non-believers had the same opportunity.


rick b said...

I'm one of the Christians that has no problem with both sides, I just wish that Atheists were like that.

Sorta like Christmas and April fools day, we both have our holidays, yet we both cannot agree on them. You guys deny Christmas is the Birth of Divinity and we teach that your fools who will end up in the lake of fire because you deny creation, even though you cannot prove evolution. Rick b

Interested said...

This is a paid ad. If religious orgs pay for ads I don't have a problem either. However, putting a nativity scene in the court house is a no-no just as it would be for this sign or a reference to mohammad or Buddah. Religion or the lack of it should not be a part of any gov't entity.

rick b said...

Just thought I would point out that if you teach their is no God and therefore teach their is no creator to be accountable to, then you get mass shootings like the fort hood and the shooting in orlando.

I remember the school shooting with Kliebold or whatever his name was. He said he denied God existed and was purposely targeting the Christians.

He even told one girl, deny God and live, she said no, so he killed her. Their was a song written about her and that. Rick b

Interested said...

That story has been told but also debunked.

"Cullen’s first assertion is that “[Emily] Wyant is the only living person who actually witnessed Bernall’s death.” Emily Wyant – who was under table #18 with Cassie Bernall when she was shot – stated in her interview with police that while she did in fact hear Cassie praying to God, she did not hear any conversation about God take place between Harris and Bernall. And Wyant would know if such a conversation took place– she was, after all, next to Bernall the whole time. Cullen also reminds us of a Rocky Mountain News article which affirmed that Wyant heard Bernall’s killer say, “peek-a-boo” before killing her. Cullen says, “Wyant’s mother confirmed that the Rocky Mountain News correctly reported the details of her daughter’s account.”

rick b said...

Rachel Scott was the 1st one to be shot in the hall way. She was targeted because she had lead many to the Lord including Cassie Bernall who use to be part of the killers crowd they hung with. Rachel Scott is the one who one who stated after being asked if she believes in God and answered: "yes I believe in God, and not only that, but His name is Jesus and He is my Lord and savior." Cassie Bernall was a younger newer believer than Rachel Scott. On the video tapes made by the shooters Eric Harris and Darin Klebo, they said that the specifically target Christian and Rachel Scott was 1st on their list. Also, that because of evolution and no afterlife there is not god and this is it for life that they had no problems doing what they did.

So yes, I believe that Cassie Bernall was praying and they had already killed Rachel Scott and yes maybe they did not say to the crowed in the library why they were doing what they were, but on the video tapes they made before and during the shooting, they stated that they were not only going after Christians but Jocks and the in crowd that picked on them. They had a specific list they were working from they made and not all on the list were killed.

Did you know a week before this shooting that the group "The Kry" were playing a concert across the street at the Calvary Chapel and during the concert Jon Luc the lead singer stopped in the middle of the gig and say they the Lord told him that there was some one here who was planing on killing some one and that God is trying to get ahold of your heart and to not do it and that He is real and loves you? Eric Harris was at that concert invited by Rachel Scott and Cassie Bernell and other Christians. Obviously Eric Harris did not accept Christ.

Also, during the trauma many could not hear or think or save themselves being griped by fear and panic. Many can not remember all details of that day so eyewitness accounts are not always the best source. Also, it seems that Wyant's mother has an agenda herself. However, the video tapes the murder's made are the best evidence and they specifically stated that Christians and others were on their list to kill and Rachel Scott was mentioned by name. Cassie's name was on the list. The witness in the hall when Rachel was gunned down give the account. Some times Rachel and Cassies murders and the facts can get switched. So yes, Cassie did not say those things under the table, but Rachel did in the hallway. She also offered to pray with the murderers and tried to stop them with her own body and it gave time for others to escape.

rick b said...

Cont, From above.

Did you know that the School resource officers emptied his clock and all 15 rounds when trying to stop the murder's from entering the school? The had home made bombs from propane tanks in their car along with more guns, ammo, and knives. If the School Resource officer did not spot them on their 1st time unloading their car, they would have done even more harm. The SRO was the one who called it in. The murderers had to act fast and just started shooting because they knew that their plans to kill over 100 students just got blown by the SRO who was running at them from over 1000 yards and emptying his gun. I bet your atheist did not know that. There are many facts and things that have not hit the mainstream media and its interesting that those who want to debunk things have an agenda. If what I just wrote is true, then their is a God and he has a plan for this atheists life, and he needs to accept the Lords forgiveness.

Rachel Scott's and Cassie Bernall's accounts can get mixed and look like its not true, but if you check things out, what I explained is recorded fact. So were did this atheists get his facts. Did someone just say that to them and therefore they believed it. Wow, and they say Christians are brain dead and narrow minded. Just because this atheists say's it's been debunked dose not make it true. Check the facts. That's why the Gospel of Luke is so cool, Luke checked out the facts and only reported that which he was told by those who seen it.

Check out this link, Some pictures and links at the bottom of the page, One link says, full story.

Rick b

Jeff said...

Hi, Interested.

I was just wondering: have you ever thought about all the different religions that exist, and wonder why they exist at all? If you say, "Well, they exist because man needs a way to explain away his fears or the things he doesn't understand," then shouldn't Science have replaced all that by now? I mean, we have advanced very far in Science and technology, and we have explanations for just about everything we see, and yet, there are even more religions now than there were several thousand years ago.

Have you ever thought that, when you see something that is counterfeit, there must also be a reality as well? I mean, if there is counterfeit money, there must also be real, genuine money as well. Therefore, seeing that there are all these religions, have you ever thought that one of them just may be the real thing?

It's just a thought, but what are your ideas on that?

rick b said...

To add to what Jeff said, I have always thought Atheists are taking a huge risk because lets say their are only 20 different religions claiming 20 different views of God.

All have some form of heaven, hell or punishment. Even if the punishment is ceasing to exist.

So by not looking into these things and just assuming your correct your taking a chance.

But also, me and beast went over this before, Atheists for the most part hate religion, maybe not the people involved but religion it's self.

Well good news, Jesus/God also hates religion. So you have something in common with God, You both hate religion, and guess what, this is your lucky day. I hate religion also.

Religion and relationship are two different things. God wants to have a personal relationship with us, not religion.

Religion is Mans attempt to work his/her way into heaven, Jesus paid the price in full so we do not have to work, huge difference.

Read the gospels, Jesus is always busting the religious leaders chops on something. Rick b

Interested said...

"I mean, we have advanced very far in Science and technology, and we have explanations for just about everything we see, and yet, there are even more religions now than there were several thousand years ago."

I'm not so sure about that. There have always been lots of religions; perhaps you are speaking of christian sects. If so you are right there are many and it seems to be growing.

I do not believe that science will ever do away with religion. The more we learn through science the less there is for god to do..however, certain parts of humanity will always need their gods.

As for finding "the real thing", many think they have and they can't all be right.

I will be 'eternally' grateful that I found my way out of the rigors of religion.

Jeff said...

I'm not so sure about that. There have always been lots of religions; perhaps you are speaking of christian sects.

Partially, but not completely. Mormons began with Joseph Smith. Jehovah's Witnesses began with Charles Taze Russell in the 1870's. Islam began around 1400 years ago with Muhammad. The Baha'i Faith came out of Islam. Of course, religions like Hinduism, Judaism, etc. are much older. And religions that some may have considered extinct, such as the old Roman gods, have had a revival in recent times (though I'm not saying it has become all that popular). Now, I don't know of anyone who worships Baal, per se, today, but there are quite a few religions, plus cults, that exist today that did not exist 3000 years ago. This includes many splintered movements as well.

I do not believe that science will ever do away with religion.

I agree.

The more we learn through science the less there is for god to do

I disagree.

As for finding "the real thing", many think they have and they can't all be right.

I agree.

I will be 'eternally' grateful that I found my way out of the rigors of religion.

You will likely disagree with me on this, but morality stems from religion.

Jeff said...

I found the following on one site, which is interesting.
These are the dates the religion was founded, according to that site:

Zoroastrianism: 600 to 6000 BC.
Confucianism: 520 BC.
Buddhism: 523 BC.
Taoism: 550 BC.
Jainism: 570 BC.
Chinese Folk Religion: 270 BC.
Shinto: 500 AD.
Sikhism: 1500 AD.
Baha'i Faith: 1863 AD.
Wicca: 600 BC, 1940 AD.

Nicole said...

Christianity is unique over all other religions because it is based on historical facts. Other religions are primarily centered on ethical and religious opinions of their founders. Christianity is based on the character of Jesus Christ and on what He said and did. Jesus repeatedly claimed to be the Creator God and acknowledged the accuracy of every part of Old Testament scripture. Christianity's truth and validity rely on real events of the past such as the Fall as a real event which explains why we need a savior and are incapable of saving ourselves; Noah's Flood as the best explanation the geology of the world around us; the specific predictions of future events, before they happened, such as the birth and crucifixion of Christ. The historical truth of these events can be objectively investigated from not only one source, but from multiple sources across time.

Christianity is the only religion which offers the possibility of physically investigating its factual nature, because it makes specific claims about the world around us. It also addresses where we came from. If one of these claims is false, then other biblical claims are also suspect. But if these claims are scientifically valid, there is every reason to believe all of the Bible's claims such as what happens after death or what God requires of us in order to spend eternity in His presence.

Interested said...

"Christianity is unique over all other religions because it is based on historical facts. Other religions are primarily centered on ethical and religious opinions of their founders. Christianity is based on the character of Jesus Christ and on what He said and did."

Nicole please check your facts. Islam is based on a real person as well as are many others. Christianity is only 2000 years old where we know of religions that are much older and based on a person or persons. Jeff listed several religions and their dates of inception or practice...there are many more.

As for history, there is little mention of the character of Jesus Christ, outside the bible. The jury is still out on whether he was "a real person or not". But no matter...belief is not based on history it is based on faith, which is a firm belief in something for which there is no proof, by your own definition.

Nicole said...


Checked my facts, hence my post.

Islam, along with many of those other religions, have human beings as their founders. Jesus is 100% human and 100% God.

Not only did Christ die precisely at the time of His choosing, but He rose on the third day by His own power. Christ predicted this when He said that He had the power to lay His life down and the power to take it up again (John 10:17, 18). After three days, Christ arose from the dead. Christians worship a living Lord. All other religious founders and leaders (e.g. Muhammad, Shankara and Budda) are dead. In most cases their tombs are known and honored. Only the tomb of Christ was occupied for just three days, and thereafter it was empty forever.

Christ alone conquered death which clearly shows that Christ is exactly who He says He is "the resurrection and the life." It is Christ's resurrection that gives Christians hope in life, the realization that they have nothing to fear from death, and the assurance that they will see Christ again after their death.

And FYI:
Definition 2b of the word faith is not the primary definition. I merely said that is the one you would pick.

Nicole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Interested said...

So what is your definition of faith? ...and what say you about the history? Are you saying that the bible is the only source you use?

Let me ask you...If you were going to give credit, let's say just $5000 to someone, other than a relative or close friend. What would you require? Just one reference? When you go to get credit do they ask for more than one reference? I venture that they certainly do. Same for me and evidence. I require several sources not one or two.

Nicole said...

For the purposes of this blog, I identify with definitions 2a and 3 of the word faith. But you knew that already, didn't you? ;)

I need clarification on what you're asking me about the history, sorry.

In short, I consider the Bible the ultimate authority on many things. It has all the answers for life and godliness.

I do read other sources, however. I do studies, I listen to and read teachings online. Along with many, many other books of interest that I have.

rick b said...

Interested said Same for me and evidence. I require several sources not one or two.

Have you ever read the books by Josh McDowell, Evidence that demands a verdict? He has 2 out. If you have not read them would you? If not, why not. Rick b

rick b said...

Interested, I have a question for you? Do you consider yourself a Humanist? Or is that a separate thing from being an Atheist? Rick b

Interested said...

Rick I don't think I would read Josh McDowell because of his reputation.

And to answer your question: atheist for me means the oposite of theist. I do not believe in any god. As for humanist I am not sure what it means to others but to me it means a belief in humanity and yes, that I do.

rick b said...

Interested said Rick I don't think I would read Josh McDowell because of his reputation.

what is the reputation he has? I never heard of this. Rick b

rick b said...

Interested said Rick I don't think I would read Josh McDowell because of his reputation.

I then asked
what is the reputation he has? I never heard of this. Rick b

November 13,

As of today, I asked my question 4 days ago.

You want us to give evidence and site sources. Did you lie about Josh, Maybe said that because you dont really want to see what evidence out side the Bible a former God hating atheist used to decide God was real?

I'm sure your busy, but 4 days and still no reply, Come on.

You still searching the web to find trash about Josh you can then post to discredit him?

Even if the guy is a complete dirt bag, if he has provide sources as evidence in his books then despite how he really is, that should not change the evidence he quotes from.

I could say, People think Caral Sagan has a bad reputation like you said about Josh, you would want a reply from me.

Plus if the only people I list as saying this about Caral are either Christians, or people that simply do not like him, does this make everything said about him true?

How can you sit here and tell us your a moral loving person, when you reject evidence out of hand and you lie to us, Are liars moral people? Rick b

Interested said...

Rick I resent you constantly calling me a liar. My statement about Josh McDowell referenced his a religious writer..nothing more. Just like you would not read Dawking, Harris or Dennett because you know they are athiest.. you would not waste your time.
And as to the delay I have been down on my back for the last few days. Not ignoring your question just no wnwegy to write. I have a new med today so maybe I'll be back soon.

rick b said...

Interested, You said their is no evidence or so little evidence outside of the Bible showing Jesus ever existed.

Just because Josh is a religious person as you label him means nothing. He quotes from plenty of sources that prove Jesus was a living breathing man that did what he claimed. So their is evidence outside of the Bible.

If you need to come up with excuses as to why you reject that evidence then thats your choice.

Honestly you cannot have it both ways, either their is evidence outside of the bible or their is not. You asked for evidence, I told you where to find it, if you then decide that you do not like that evidence or what to ignore it, then at least be honest enough to state as such.

Much of his outside sources are secular, not "religious". Rick b

rick b said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nicole said...


I hope you feel better soon.


rick b said...

Interested said Rick I resent you constantly calling me a liar.

Then stop lying and I will stop calling you one.

The dictionary defines lying like this.

1  /ˈlaɪɪŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lahy-ing] Show IPA
Use lying in a Sentence
See web results for lying
See images of lying
1. the telling of lies; untruthfulness.
2. telling or containing lies; deliberately untruthful; mendacious; false: a lying report.

Related forms:
ly⋅ing⋅ly, adverb

1. falsehood, falsity, mendacity, prevarication. 2. deceptive, misleading, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.

Notice under Synonyms: it say Misleading is a form of lying. That is the majority of your lies, you mislead people.

You mislead people by saying you want evidence, But then when I offer sources you reject them.

If you want to be totally honest then you should spell it out for all your readers very clearly.

You should say, I want only evidence from sources that are atheist in nature, No religious books or people. I dont care if these religios people were atheist at one time.

But then admit that if only atheist people are the only source you will look to, then you honestly wont receive any evidence. You are misleading, theirfore you are a liar.

Also you dont like me calling you one, but you never refute me, if I call you a liar on a certain issue, you never say, Rick your wrong and here is why.

So if you cannot give a reason why I'm wrong then I must be correct. Even if your answer is not very good, you dont even fight the accusation period. As you have seen, I bend over backwards to provide sources and evidence, you bend over backwards to not answer most of my questions or provide evidence. So for now I stand by what I say. Rick b

Jeff said...


And as to the delay I have been down on my back for the last few days. Not ignoring your question just no wnwegy to write. I have a new med today so maybe I'll be back soon.

How are you feeling today?

rick b said...

The Existence Of The Jews Proves The Existence Of God!

A Christian is required by God to have faith, but it does not have to be blind faith. He has given us plenty of proof. The proof of God is in the world all around us. One mighty proof is the existence of the Jewish people. You cannot explain the Jewish people without reference to God. They defy all logic as a people. Logic tells us that the Jews should have ceased to exist long ago. Many rulers have tried to exterminate them, yet the Jews are still around. In the days of Jesus, Rome was an occupying force in Israel and placed heavy taxes on the Jews, which always plotted a rebellion. One such rebellion took place in 66 A.D. In 70 A.D. the Temple was destroyed. Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, which was fulfilled to the letter; "Not one stone shall be left upon another." In 130 A.D. Emperor Hadrian provoked the Jews by building a pagan temple on the Temple Mount to provoke another rebellion, which ended with the Jews dispersed throughout the whole world. Now this is not the only time that something like this has happened to a nation. What normally happens is that within a generation or two the nation that was dispersed ceases to exist. The people melt into the countries to which they are sent and just disappear. The Jews were different. Even though the Roman Empire ceased to exist, the Jews remain. Even after nearly 2,000 years they are still a distinct people. They may be a Russian Jew, or an American Jew, or an Ethiopian Jew, or a Chinese Jew, but they are all still Jews.

They even had more reason then most other nations to disappear. They have been hunted down and killed and persecuted in many of the countries they found themselves. If they had just melted into the rest of the population they would not have sustained so many problems. Yet they remain Jews. Go ahead and explain the Jews without using God, I don't believe you can.

But the children rebelled against me; they did not walk in my statutes, and were not careful to observe my ordinances, by whose observance man shall live; they profaned my Sabbaths. "Then I thought I would pour out my wrath upon them and spend my anger against them in the wilderness. But I withheld my hand, and acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out. Ezekiel 20:21-22 This is the very reason that there will always be Jews. If anyone could ever manage to destroy them completely it would prove that either God is not real or He has no real power. He will not allow His witness to be destroyed. God predicted in His word that they would again become a nation and that they would be a thorn in the world's side. If you don't believe God got it right, you haven't been following the news very closely. The Jews remain God's witnesses to the world. Again not because they are a holy nation, in fact most modern day Jews have little concern for God. They are God's witness to the world because there is no human explanation for them and their continued existence. Since becoming a nation again in 1948, God has preserved the nation of Israel from defeat by it’s enemies. Outnumbered by the nations all around them and attacked on all sides, the nation of Israel has not only defended itself three times, but regained more of the land that God promised Abraham each time they were attacked. It is heartbreaking to see the nation of Israel so willing to give up the land God promised them in return for peace which will never come, until their Messiah, whom they have rejected comes back. Replacement theology has become very popular today. It teaches that God is done with the Jews and has replaced them with the church. This is unbiblical and very dangerous for anyone who believes it.

rick b said...

Dangerous because by trying to take the place of the Jews they are despising God's very special witness to the world. God is not done with the Jews. The year 1948 should have put this theology to rest but it didn't. 1968 should have put this theology to rest, but again it didn't. 1973 should have put this theology to rest, but again it didn't. In the book of Ezekiel we read about some of God's promises to Israel. He promises to bring them back to their land from all the nations where He scattered them. That is happening before our eyes. He promises them that He will take out their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh and that they will follow Him. This has not happened yet, but it will. We also read about the Temple that Ezekiel saw and was told to describe in detail. This Temple is yet to be built, but it will be. God is not done with the Jews and the nation of Israel and they as a people are completely different from the church as believers. Yes there are Jews who believe in their Messiah and are part of the church, but the nation of Israel still has promises from God that will take place. Not all the promises are pleasant to contemplate. There is a time coming called the time of Jacob's trouble. It will take place during the tribulation and it will be very unpleasant for the Jewish people. But the very fact that it is coming and was prophesied in the Bible means that God is not done with the Jewish people as a whole. Don't be fooled into the false doctrine of replacement theology, it is not true. We should pray for the Jews and Israel as a nation. We should demand that our nation support them and help them. God's promises are not dead, they are alive and well. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." Genesis 12:2-3 This is a promise to Abraham and to the whole world. The whole world has been blessed through the nation Israel by the coming of the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. The promise and the warning are still valid. God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. And Israel will remain God's witness to the world.


NOTE: In that 2002 article I e-mailed previous to this e-mail, Dennis Prager pointed out that "Among those 6 billion people are nearly 2 billion Muslims – roughly 20 percent of the global population." He also pointed out that "There are today about 14 million Jews left." Two billion divided by 14 million is 142.857143. Therefore, as of 2002, there were almost 143 times as many Muslims on earth as Jews! And what is one of the Muslims' main goals? To exterminate the Jews! Yet, after 1400 years of Islam, the Jews have not been exterminated! Yet another proof of God's existence, if you ask me!