Friday, June 25, 2010

The Believer and the Apostate

It is no secret that the believer and the non believer have dificulty getting along..a bit tongue in cheek...but I had not reall looked at the reasons in depth. This article paints a picture that is right on.
There is quite possibly no greater threat to the believer than the existence of the apostate. In order to reduce dissonance, the true believer must assume that their own particular system of faith is so obviously true that no open-minded seeker who is fully appraised of the facts can fail to accept it. The apostate represents the real-world disconfirmation of this assumption. It is possible to ascribe the existence of non-believers to several sources – the work of the Enemy, or a deliberate (and thus rebellious) close-mindedness or even, in some cases, non-election. The apostate, however, is in a different class altogether. The apostate is defined as a person who, at one time, fully accepted the dogma and tenets of the particular system, who participated in its rituals, and who defended it from the attacks of unbelievers. However, the apostate at some point reached the conclusion that the system was intellectually bankrupt, and defected from the faith, either for another tradition, or for a system of freethought.Thus, the apostate cannot exist in the worldview of the believer.
Rational thought is the true enemy of the believer.
This line of defense usually produces a curious paradox. Most human beings need rational thought in order to function effectively in the secular world. They are thus quite able to effectively apply logic and reason in everyday situations. But, it is important that this light of reason never be brought to bear on one’s own system of belief. The reason for this is not difficult to determine – very few, if any, religious systems can survive a dispassionate, rational dissection. This fact is acknowledged by the believer, usually unconsciously.
Complete article here



Rick b said...

I read the article and I totally disagree. The person who quoted the Bible appears to only pick certain verses that fit their agenda and seems to ignore many other verses.

The Bible says very clearly and plainly, Acts 17:11 Search the scriptures to know if these things are true.

Your searching through evidence and checking the facts not just blindly believing. As far as Thomas goes, Jesus was not saying that Thomas should blindly believe. Thomas was with Jesus for many years and saw many things, Thomas heard and saw many things, Jesus was more upset that Thomas was not believing despite all the evidence and was rejecting the truth until he had more evidence.

Then John the baptist said when he was in Jail go find out if Jesus is who he says he is. Jesus told the People speaking on behalf of John, Go tell John the things you have seen, The blind have sight, the lame are healed, the dead rise, Etc.

Jesus was showing evidence to these guys to go tell John of the evidence.

Then the Bible tells us in a few spots, Do not be ignorant. I do not care what the BoM says, I dont believe the BoM.

This article is written by a person who either has read the Bible and is keeping it one sided to push an agenda, or they really do not know what the Bible says and are really ignorant. Either way, people need to stop lying and pushing a lying agenda upon people. I know the Bible and what it says. Rick b

Rick b said...

The person that wrote the article that implies that the Bible wants people to be ignorant and blindly believe needs to read the Bible as I said already.

Have you or this person read the story of Jesus bringing Lazarus back from the dead? Do you people know the fuller story of after he was raised from the dead?

It says that the religious leaders wanted Lazarus dead because they did not want people believing in Jesus and having people follow Him because people can talk with Lazarus.

Well according to secular history they did kill Lazarus. Funny how people who do not want Jesus to be real need to suppress the truth and even kill to keep the truth from getting out.

Funny how atheists even to this day due stuff that trys to suppress the truth, like this story that is so one sided and leaves out the facts. Rick b

Rick b said...

I understand your both busy, and are having a really hard time in your life right now. Trust me, I understand what your going trough, My wife's grandfather died just a few days ago on her birthday, and she has a ton of health issues herself.

Interested said...

... implies that the Bible wants people to be ignorant and blindly believe...

From history we knoow that the church is stronger when the people are kept in the dark...thus the dark ages.

To my thinking this article points out that it is often the education of a believer that drives him to apostacy. In my case that was it exactly. The more I learned the less there was or is a need for a god.

The article also makes the point that it is more difficult for the believer to have meaningful dialog with on who has "been there, done that". When one knows the doctrine and was once a proponent, there is little room for argument from a believer.

However, that said, I do understand that those who believe will always defend their beliefs...and they have every right to do so.

Interested said...

Rick I am so sorry for your loss. Nothing makes it better but time will lighten the load. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Rick b said...

Interested said From history we knoow that the church is stronger when the people are kept in the dark...thus the dark ages.

Here is the problem with the dark ages, Man kept fellow man in the dark. You cannot find a single passage in the Bible where God say keep my people in the dark.

As I pointed out before, Acts 17:11 says search the scriptures. That passage does not say that only certain people can search the scriptures. In the Bible God is pretty tough on people who keep people in the dark and not allow them to hear the truth.

In the dark ages the main church was the catholic church and the majority of the catholic church does not know God, and would not know Him if God slapped them.

The catholic church to this day trys to keep people in the dark and the pope does not even know what the bible says. Their probably are a few average Catholics that know Jesus but the vast majority do not, especially the popes and higher up's.

Interested said To my thinking this article points out that it is often the education of a believer that drives him to apostasy. In my case that was it exactly. The more I learned the less there was or is a need for a god.

As I said before, I honestly do not believe for one minute that people who claim to know God then walk away did so because they got smarter and felt they had no need for Him.

I know from personnel experience and meeting hundreds of people in church over years. Many people want to do what ever it is they want and they feel they cannot because it conflicts with the belief in God.

In Some cases they simply are mad at God and they walk away. I know some people in my church left because they were mad at someone, Me the pastor or someone else.

Some people left because they were/are mad at God. Some people are leaving because they want out of the marriage they are in.

I have told you about my brother before, He claimed he no longer believed in God because like you he was "enlightened" Yet I do not believe him for one minute because he gets so angry when someone wants to simply ask a question about his past, if he is not angry with God he would not get so mad. Before he was a christian, when he was just an atheist, he was a nice guy, now he's on his way to being a drunk.

I believe he is trying to run from God and drown out the voice of God by getting drunk. Their was a book called Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith

The book was written by Charles Templeton, He was called the Billy Graham of Canada. He wrote the Book claiming he had serious issues with the Bible and decide it was no longer true. Well when you look deeper into him it turns out that the conflict he had with the Bible and God was that cheating on your wife is wrong. He was married but banging a women on the side, and not his wife.

Once he was exposed he left his wife and wrote that book. Other big name or high profile Christians are some music artists and they were walking the walk and talking the talk, but then they walked away and at some point in time we find out that they walked away not because they decided they no longer needed God or believed in him, it was a matter of they were gay or into drugs or many women.

The Bible is clear that all this is against God and you cannot have both. Rick b

Interested said...

Rick, I walked away because I could no longer believe. I was not mad at god, nor did I want to live my life differently. I haven't changed my life style except in one way since I walked away from religion. That change is that on Sunday morning, I enjoy my coffee in the garden, weather permiting. I am still a good person, I give to charities and donate time and materials to those in need. I am a law abiding citizen, no traffic tickets in 25 years or more, and I haven't become a drunk. I don't drink anymore now than I did when I believed. I actually stopped smoking after I left the church circles.

My point is that I do know people, like your brother, who have taken a different road. But I know many more who, like me, just went on with their life in a different way.

Dan Baker has a book you might enjoy...maybe...Godless. He was an evangelical minister at one time. His story is quite interesting.

Rick b said...

Being a good person and giving to charities will not get you into heaven after death. The name Dan Baker sounds really familiar, I will have to look him up. Rick

Interested said...

I am in heaven now. I have a wonderful life, full of friends, children grand children and I try to make every day special because once is is gone I know I don't get any do-overs.
Dan Barker not Baker...sorry for my bad typing.

Rick b said...

I do agree with you that this is heaven for you because after you die you wont be in heaven anymore. I am a firm believer of telling people if you reject or deny God then live this life to the fullest even if it means breaking the law or being as evil as you want. Since hell is forever and your never going to leave, then do what ever you can now. Yes Dan Baker, I have heard of him before. Rick b

Rick b said...

I really like the new look of your blog. Rick