Tuesday, October 23, 2007

“Who cares, if the founding fathers were believers or not?”

Actually, I don’t care one way or the other. But it comes into play when we begin the conversation about the separation of church and state. Our founding fathers were wise to create a constitution that provides for such a state. They had lived under the rule of the Church of England and they were well aware of the problems created when church and state are mixed.

You asked how it affects my life and the answer is in several ways;
• First I am a patriotic citizen but when the pledge of allegiance to the United States of America is recited “under god” is injected, not in the original by the way. The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States Flag
• In many schools children are never taught the science of evolution. Whether you believe it or not, children should be taught science not religion
• I am an atheist and I pay taxes which are used to promote religion Americans United: Home Page
• Churches are exempt from taxes when they often use the pulpit to promote political values Preacher Against Romney
• Political leaders are heavily influenced by the Christian right which promotes an agenda with which I don’t agree.
• And then if religion is a part of policy, which religion? Christian? Judaism? Islam? Mormon? Scientology? Wicken? They are all represented in the US population.

We must, as a nation, remain secular; our freedom depends on it.

Prayer in Schools? Only for Muslims
Muslim Prayer Protected in Texas Public School


rick b said...

Your view and thinking is a great Joke, You want Kids to learn Science and Eviloution in Schools, so it's ok to Push your agenda down the throats of Kids, but it MUST according to you be one Sided, No creationism.

You say you want God removed from the Pledge, if you do not like it dont say it, I as a Believer in Christ never say the pledge, I am not of this World, I follow Christ and will some day be with him, as for the US, I hate much of the policys and crap being pushed, the worst part is, people like you wanting Us Christians to have zero say or zero Rights, but yet we must sit by and let you guys shove you beliefes down our throats.

You say, I'm an athiest and my Taxes pay for religion, Well guess what I am a Christian who pays taxes and my Taxes cover Kids learning Eleloution in Schools, do you care about that? Seriously I really doubt it, Then my Taxes pay for Abortion which I hate, so You claim your taxes cover things you do not believe, well guess what? So do mine.

Lastly I know you will not agree, but you kick God out of Schools and guess what, Guns and violence came in, I guess you got what you wanted, God removed, so dont complain about the Violence in Schools. Rick b

rick b said...

Let me add one more thing, I know you do not believe the Bible, but still read the Book of Revelation, Some day, and I believe it will be in my life time because I see the stage being set from what the Bible teaches, the Believers in Christ will be removed from the earth, and the Book of Revelation tells what will happen after we are gone.

Say what you want, you do not believe or I am wrong Etc, but once it happens you will remember what I said and you will care then. Just read it, it is not a long book, you could even skip the first 4-5 chapters. Then after were gone you will get exactly what you want, a world without Christ and Christians, but then you will not like what happens next. Rick b

Interested said...

Rick, I do not want my beliefs crammed down anybody's throat. I want our government to be secular, completely. What that means to me is that you and I have the right to worship and believe the way we wish but our government does not take sides in any way.

Evolution is science, creationism is myth. Both should be taught in school. I teach mythology all the time and I include the Adam and Eve story right along with Zeus and Apollo.

As for your taxes paying for abortion, I don't think so. GW put a stop to funding of any birth control except abstinence. But that said, I agree with you. I don't think using tax money for religiously based projects is right or even constitutional.

rick b said...

You said
Evolution is science,

Not even close, Evolution is a religion, and their is no evidence for it, it is the myth. But then again, you would say this about me as I am about to say it to you, You are going to believe what you want to believe despite the lack of evidence. Rick b

Interested said...

I suppose we must agree to disagree on what is science and demonstrable and what is myth and requires a faith in the unseen.

As I have said before, I am not qualified to argue evolution but it makes sense to me. Are there unanswered questions? Absolutely. That's what makes it science. Scientist are willing to change their understanding upon finding demonstrable evidence.

I have recently watched a few debates with Christian leaders and activist atheists; there is rarely a real winner. Maybe that is how it should be.

But again, I am not trying to convert anyone. My argument is simply for a secular government where no god is a part of policy.

rick b said...

You said: there is rarely a real winner.

well their is a winner, The believer is the winner because we know the truth, You simply reject the truth, I know you will say that their is not enough evidence or what not, I was in your shoes for many years, but like I keep saying, once your dead then you will know you were wrong and choose to believe a lie, but then, sadly it will be to late for you.

Say what you want, but the evidence is over whelming that Jesus lived and died and was who he said he was, It's just people just as the Bible says, Hate God and choose to deny Him. rick b

Interested said...

Rick, I try hard not to insult you and for the most part you have made intelligent contributions. However, when you tell me I am not interested in the truth I take offense. Truth is relative. I have my truth and you have yours. We won't agree because we have differing ground rules.

rick b said...

Interested said...

Rick, I try hard not to insult you and for the most part you have made intelligent contributions. However, when you tell me I am not interested in the truth I take offense. Truth is relative. I have my truth and you have yours. We won't agree because we have differing ground rules.

When you say I insult you, then I can only say that it is because I am correct and you do not like it, and I do not say that to insult you. I simply read the Bible and believe it because of the evidence, and the Bible tells me that Fools say their is no God, you say you an Athiest, the word Athiest comes from the Greek word (ignaramis) Hope that was spelled correctly, meaning Ignorant.

Plus the Bible tells me People love Lies and love darkness rather than Truth, Ect. Then you say, Truth is relative. I have my truth and you have yours.

I love it when people say that, here's why, and I think your going to hate my responce.

Lets say, a guy says, it is ok, or it is MY TRUTH that says, I can rape and kill women, then he starts to attack a women who says, please do not rape me that is wrong, He says, Truth is relative, my truth says it is ok. Who is correct, one believes it is ok, another says it is wrong.

Then about Evaloution, look at all the hoxes over the years, Scientests made many to claim it was true, but then expoused as false, what about the people who went to their death believing a lie. Do not get me wrong, I like you and enjoy posting on your blog, but I will contiune to speak my mind and say what the Bible teaches. Another thing the Bible says is, The Cross of Christ is foolishness to those who Perish,

It is foolish to you because your going to perish,

But it is Life and power to those who believe in God. Rick b

Interested said...


rick b said...

I was telling you about a video and website saying the Founding fathers were believers. This is the name of the video, (Pastors and Christians in civil govt. David Barton ).

I watched the entire thing. Here is the web adress, www.wallbuilders.com

I do not know how to do hot links, but cut and paste it and it will take you their. Rick b

tina said...

Wow! I think there is a fundie in the midst.

Atheist means ignoramus? Since when?

In early Ancient Greek, the adjective atheos (ἄθεος, from the privative ἀ- + θεός "god") meant "godless".

You know "Interested" I like your posts, I have only read a few so far, well maybe one, but I just got here through Beast's blog.(Atheist Haven)
It seems that if one wants to make claims then they should site a reference for it. Just my opinion. I don't mean you by the way.I'll definitely be back, I might try to put your site on my home page so I'll know when you post something new.

Interested said...

The bible is not a source of evidence for the existence of god. At best it is mediocre record of history, and then only a small amount.