Friday, November 9, 2007

The Bible

In a recent discussion with a friend the subject of the bible stood front and center. Because she is a believer, she stated that she believes the bible “completely”.

In a conversation later with a Mormon friend, I mentioned the previous conversation. My Mormon friend stated that only parts of the bible are believable.

So off I go to do what I most enjoy; research.

What I found is interesting in that, like my two friends, it depends on who you ask. Many Christian will state that the bible is not contradictory and others will disagree. I think it is confusing at best and downright ambiguous at worst.

Was Abraham justified by faith or works?
Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory.
James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Does God want some to go to hell?
1 Timothy 2:3-4
God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is ... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

These are only a few of the many differences or contradictions I found. What is a believer to do? I’m not a believer but if I were it would be hard to reconcile these ambiguities.

Oh and this one…What’s up with that?

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)
Positive Atheism
Skeptics Bible
BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS - The Truth About Christianity


rick b said...

Now what shall we say concerning Abraham the father, as pertaining to the flesh, what did he find? For if Abraham were justified by his works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God (Rom 4:1-2).

If it was Abraham's works that brought him justification, then Abraham could boast in his works. He could say, "I left my home, I left my family on the other side of the Euphrates River, and I journeyed not even knowing where I was going, just waiting for God to show me. And I was willing to offer my son." He could have boasted if he was justified by his works, but he could not have boasted in God; he would have had to have boasted in himself.

But what does the scripture say about Abraham? [It says,] Abraham believed God and it was [imputed or] counted unto him for righteousness (Rom 4:3).

Why? He just believed in God, that is what God accounted for righteousness.

Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt (Rom 4:4).

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar (Jam 2:21)?

You see, his works corresponded with his faith. He believed God. He believed that through Isaac God was going to raise up a nation because God has promised that. Through Isaac shall thy seed be called. Now his very offering up of Isaac was proof of his strong belief in the word of God. Believing that God would if necessary raise Isaac from the dead to keep His promise. And so his faith was in keeping or his works were in keeping with his faith.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (Jam 2:22),

They were working together. His faith produced the works as faith will also produce the corresponding works in our life.

and by works was faith made perfect (Jam 2:22)?

Not a question mark. In the Greek there is no question mark there. It's just the declaration, "by works his faith was made complete." His faith was proved.

And the scripture was fulfilled which said, Abraham believed God, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (Jam 2:23-24).

The works being the proof of the faith.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also (Jam 2:25-26).

When your spirit leaves your body, your body is dead. The body without the spirit, dead. So faith, if it doesn't have corresponding works, is not a true faith. It's dead. It does nothing for you. It cannot save you. Dead faith can save no one. It's a living faith and a living Lord and that living faith can be demonstrated by the actions of my life that are in harmony and corresponding with what I declare to be true and what I declare I believe to be true. There has to be the corresponding works for faith to be alive.

Therefore, let us examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith, the true faith that saves. Not just the verbalizing of the Apostle's Creed. I believe but the actions of my life being in harmony with it.

Father, help us that we might indeed be doers of the word and not hearers only. That we might not just affirm a belief but may we demonstrate that belief by the attitudes and actions of our lives. Lord, help us not to be deceived. In Jesus' name, Amen.

May the Lord bless you and guide you as you go this week. As you face the many temptations, may the Lord give you strength and may you walk and live after the Spirit. And may you respond after the Spirit. In the temptation may you not yield to the flesh and react after the flesh. May your life be pleasing unto God, as our actions come into harmony with our declarations of what we believe. May we show it in the works that we do. In Jesus' name.

rick b said...

I clicked on the link you posted about Bible contrdictions and I gotta say, what a joke, It is a matter of ignorant people not reading the Bible to understand what it says. These people only look for minor issues to say look, confusion, yet they never read the Bible to get the answers, then add to that I would bet money If I were to answer them they would say, thats not good enough, a matter of, no amount of truth will be good enough. Rick b

Interested said...

Rick this is a really good article about religion. It makes excellent points for both camps.

rick b said...

I will read it later, but remember, I hate religion and Christians are not religious, we have a relationship with the true and Living God.

Here is my example, Religion says, you need a place to live, so you work for the Goverment and they give you a place to live, you Daughter needs a place to live, so you simply say, your my child and I love you, so move in with me, No works involved to move in with a loving parent, Understand the difference? Rick b

Interested said...

I don't understand when you say Christians are not religious. What do you mean?

BEAST said...


What Rick is going to say, I presume is that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with God. Standard Christian punchline.

I was a Baptist for ten years, and in between I went to a Catholic School. I know all the tricks in their bags.


tina said...

Well, hello Beast. :) You have come to an interesting blog. I like it here. :)

Larro said...

Toilet paper.

Kinda rough, but what do you expect?

It's a freakin' book. A BOOK! Nothing more, nothing less than the Iliad or some random harlequin novel.

Okay, I may have been kinda harsh about the "toilet paper" comment. I don't condone burning books for the sake of burning books because I disagree with the content...wiping my ass though? Hmm...not the Iliad.

Here's the singular problem with the Christian bible: a great, great many people BELIEVE it!

Here is the next most pertinent problem with this. Faith. Can't argue with it or against it. In this social context it is almost like banging your head against a wall. The only route to take in this matter is to make sure this "infection" does not spread.

Be secular.

tina said...

Stay secular. :)

Interested said...

As I wander through the blog posting from christians and other religious folks, I am amazed at how intelligent they seem, until it comes to that thing called faith. It seems to me that when faith moves in intelligence moves out.

Sorry, I don't mean to be critical or insulting but that is my observation.

Larro said...

I on the other hand intend to be critical and at times insulting.

Jenn said...

Faith commeth be hearing and hearing by the word....

I guess you have to read the WORD to increase your faith. Psalms will especially help restore the fragments of faith that is broken in a mom whose daughter is on drugs.... To increase piece by piece. I know, my 20 year old daughter is finally getting the rehab she needs. She met a man who has a faith also, to see her through because he loves her. God never gives up on us, we just give up on him to easily. Try to remember how much Christ suffered for us. And then realize the suffering we go thru is to bring us closer, thru pressing in, to Him
He chastises those He loves, we would probably ignore Him if we thought life was just a bowl of chocolates. I can't ignore Him and certainly don't want too!!

Thank God He never turned a deaf ear to my prayers even when I sometimes felt they were empty...

Larro said...

Imaginary playmates are a gaff! What a riot at parties. Man that Christ guy is a token of hilarity.

What? He's standing right there. Don't you see him? He's chastising you RIGHT NOW.

Jenn said...

Larry, so you listen to Black Sabath?? Funny thing, the lead singer, you know, Jeff Fehnholt?
He is a born again christian and sings only worship to his Jesus now!! He said by the grace of God, his praying wife never quit until he was delivered, maybe you could use some of that yourself....


rick b said...

Jenn, I heard from my Athiest co-workers that the lead singer of Korn is now a born again Christian also.

But a few others who have died, like the lead singer for the greatful dead and Alice in Chains are now believers also. Granted they are dead and most likly in hell awaiting the lake of Fire, they are not believers unto salvation, but they now know the truth and believe.

But then everyone will die someday and then know they were wrong and be tormented with the fact they rejected the truth. Rick b

Larro said...

Black Sabbath: Ozzy and Dio days.

tina said...

jenn said to larro> He said by the grace of God, his praying wife never quit until he was delivered, maybe you could use some of that yourself....
--------For your information Larro's wife is atheist, I doubt very much that she would pray for Larro.

Maybe you could use a dose of reality, I'll hope you find it!

Larro said...

Seeing how Christians relish quoting their scripture, I'll quote one of my favorites.

Evangelist you claim God speaks through you,
Your restless mouth full of lies gains popularity.
You care not for the old that suffer,
When empty pockets cry from hunger.

Penniless from their generosity,
Sharing their money to quench your greed.
Searching for the answer to their prayers
They cry their last wish of need.
Save me.

His spirit lives and breathes in me.
The almighty transformed to your screen.
The meanings lost in its translation,
No holy words, describe his deception.

You say you'll help us find the lord,
Tell me preacher how do you know
A simple quest for a visible savior,
To lead us through our final prayer.
Save me.

Send your donations,
Contribute to the cause.
Your righteous reward?

Praise the lord, praise god,
Is what you wish to sell.
There is no heaven without a hell.

In your mind's eye could you truly believe,
That by giving you can save your soul,
Could you be so naive!
You heal the sick,[you] raise the dead,
You blind the congregation
With the things you say.

Religious blackmail a deceit of trust,
That death will come and all will be lost.

Can you hear the serpents call,
Look deep in those deceiving eyes.
Ignore the writing on the wall,
You should read between the lies.

When doubt subsides his honesty,
An inquiry, is it blasphemy?
Impure the soul, that's made to suffer,
No sermons left to hide or cover,
An empty promise, lie unfulfilled,
To steal a dream or get it killed.
They claim your trip to heavens nearby,
You may believe it but satan wouldn't lie.

This is from my all time favorite band.

tina said...

Sorry, Interested, just a little motherly defense for Larro.

As for your post,what if Mitt Romney wins the election, but doesn't believe all of the bible?

rick b said...

Larro said
This is from my all time favorite band.

Sounds like something Ronni James Dio would say, But who is it. Rick b

freespiritjenn said...

Tina, I don't think Larro needs your help or anyone else for that matter...
Whoever our next president is I'll pray for him. This world is upheld thru prayers, and Christ is returning for His church with or without your permission.......


Larro said...


Larro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Larro said...

Jeff Fenholt was never officially a member of Black Sabbath. He tried out for a few months in 1986 during production of Seventh Star but was never credited (probably because he was NOT talented...can we say Christian Rock?). Nevertheless Jenn, you got your facts wrong. You make it sound like Fenholt is in the hall of fame of Sabbath history.

rick b said...

Slayer was one band I never liked. But I liked black sabbath and Dio. Rick b

Larro said...

Your loss.

Jenn said...

Well, Rick, Interested, Tina, Beast and Larro, (hope I didnot forget anyone) just wanted to say Have a Merry Christmas!
Christ is in the holiday but it takes faith to believe that He is. If you can have faith to marry and have a child, surely someone greater than all of us smartas-es had to create all of us!
Have a good one!!!


Larro said...

Christmas...a holy day stolen from the pagans.

rick b said...

Larro, I agree that Christmas was stolen from Pagens, Jesus was not born in December. But just because it was stolen from a pagen holiday does not mean Jesus is not real.

Beast said to Check out his blog, I looked through it, I think it is really funny, I said a while back, you guys are real God haters, you said you cannot hate something or someone that is not real.

Seems you sure do talk a lot about a God you dont believe is real, and you guys sure focus on the followers of this God you deny. Funny how that works. And from what I heard on the news over the years, it is the atheist groups that want people to stop saying merry Christmas, they want it changed to Happy holidays.

Is it because the name of Christ is in Christmas? Seems funny how a God you deny and claim is not real sure rules a lot of you life and things you do.

The Bible says that man is without excuse (Rom. 1), yet men insist there is no God. Man wouldn't ever have a thought about God if God did not exist, here's why.

The evolutionist/atheist types claim that there is no God and that all that we know has been learned through our sense organs, i.e. sight, touch, taste, hearing and smelling. If this is true then what is there in our known environment that inspires a man's thought to the idea of God? Follow me?

Is God a tree I can see, a scent I can smell, a noise I can hear, a bump on the head that I feel or a piece of fruit I can taste (or steak in my case, heh-heh)?

Evolutionists theory falls under the weight of their own philosophy because God is not any of the above and therefore we have not sensed him with our senses. So how then comes the idea of God? There is only one logical answer, the idea of God comes from God.

Then on the other hand, the entire creation is a testimony to the Creator which leads one to logically conclude that He is there for there would be no creation if there was no God. Those who deny this are those "25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." Rom. 1:25.

Many of them say that the creation is eternal rather than God. What could be a clearer statement by those "Who changed the truth of God into a lie", than attributing His eternalness to His creation, "and worshipped and served the creature more that the Creator" thereby?

Of course they deny that this is what they are doing and argue that there is no God to deny.

I would have to ask then, since many of them believe the creation is eternal and thereby admit the concept of "eternalness"; what then makes more sense; a non-intelligent eternal entity or an intelligent one?

Surely the Scriptures are true when they say, "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."

Larro said...

"the atheist groups that want people to stop saying merry Christmas, they want it changed to Happy holidays"

It's not the "atheist groups". It's the Wal-marts, Targets, Lowes and Kmart's of the world.

"Is it because the name of Christ is in Christmas? Seems funny how a God you deny and claim is not real sure rules a lot of you life and things you do."

This is the root of my bitch! It's not god but the morons who follow this imaginary playmate who see fit to have infused willy-nilly this god personage into society throughout the ages.

"(or steak in my case, heh-heh)?"

I didn't miss that asshole.

The idea of a god comes from the evolution of the thought of the fear of dying. You can't know there is a god unless you're fucking dead.

Thank you and have a Merry Christmas.

Anonymous said...

i bet your glad that some christians were killed, shot dead the other day.

Larro said...


I bet you're glad in assuming that I might think that. If so you have more problems than I if I were gleeful at the deaths of those innocent people.

I think it's safe to assume that religious people are for more likely to be glad about someone dying than nonreligious. Remember 911 when Muslims were dancing in the streets? And I'm sure many a Christian were gloating at the death of O'Hair.

Larro said...

Let's not forget the lynchings of blacks leading up to the modern Civil Rights Movement. Also religiously based racism dating back to slave times. I'm sure many a Christian gloated at the corpses of Negroes strung up from a tree or crosses burned in black folks yards.

freespiritjenn said...

Not this Christian......

BEAST said...

Hi Interested:

I wrote a post regarding misogyny in the bible. You might want to check it out and maybe write your opinions about them in your blog.