Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Baptism for the Dead: Update

Phillip Graham makes the assertion that the threat of baptism The Mormons: Our Secret Weapon of all the suicide bombers and jihadist, by the Mormon hierarchy, would force them into submission. I had a good chuckle reading this article but it brought to mind my feeling about being baptized after I’m dead. What impudence!

I recently had the conversation with my daughter about my death and subsequent baptism; it did not go well. She was hurt and angry because according to her since I don’t believe in anything it should not matter to me. She asserts that I am “getting back at her” for converting to Mormonism. She says that it is something that would make her and her family happy, eternal families and all that, and that my objection is unreasonable.

I did give it a lot of thought. What difference would it make to me; I’m dead? Is it not a gift I could give my daughter and her family to show my love? Would it make a difference in scheme of things? My answer is yes.

My reason is simple: When the Mormons baptize people after their death they distort and rewrite history. Each person baptized, whether dead or alive, is added to the roles of the LDS church. So, years from now, when someone does the research on my life it will appear that I was a Mormon. Think of all those people that are listed on their roles who never set foot in a Mormon temple or meeting house. People, who like me, have no belief in the supernatural or people who have strong beliefs in another realm.

It is distortion and dishonesty.

29 comments:

BEAST said...

Your post reminded me of my step-grandad (Yes, in the good ole days, people do divorce. Dang)who die d a Catholic. But her baptist daughter insisted against his will to give him a Baptist funeral!

It seems to me that the quest for members seem to extend beyond the grave.....maybe they get some financial kickbacks from organizing funerals????

Beast

tina said...

I am not very schooled in religion, any religion, but as an atheist it would really upset my children if someone, say, my christian sisters or my mom, would have a pastor at my funeral. Also my husband would fight that. His dad died recently and he had no problem with his aunt having a pastor there. But, after he said the usual things about his dad growing up, funny stuff etc. he started preaching like he was in church, I glanced at my husband and he didn't look too happy. Especially when it's assumed you donate money to him for officiating at the funeral. Won't do THAT again.
I didn't know about the Mormon's adding people to a "list." Sounds kind of intruding if you ask me. Do you have ANY say in this matter? Or would someone do it anyway? I mean, could they add you and no one be able to stop it?

Interested said...

As far as I know the only way to actually stop them is to get a court injunction but then if I'm dead who will follow up to see that the injunction is honored?
Recently the mormons were sued by the Jews for baptizing the holocaust victims. I placed the link below but there is a lot about it if you just do a google search.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E2D7123FF932A15751C1A9659C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/B/Baptism

BEAST said...

Interested:

I know this is irrational, but I have always worried that if I do die first, my Christian aunt will force my parents to give me a Christian funeral.

In order to forestall her, I told my friend of mine that if I do die early, just give me a simple funeral, complete with pomp pomps and dancing girls, and play some good ole rock and roll. Then dump my ashes to the sea.

There's no way I want my relatives to view me as a Christian. If some moron tries to make me recant on my deathbed, I will use my last ounce of strength to blasphemise his/her holy ghost.

In life and in death, I stick by on e philosophy: Live well, live good, die happy. I don't need to live an eternity with gaylooking angels and some son of a God, and certainly don't fancy a trip to hell.

Just let me go in peace.

Beast

Interested said...

I am so with you. Death is the end of a life and should be celebrated. When I go I want everyone to eat drink and be merry because I have enjoyed my life.

Larro said...

I just re-checked your blog "readability test" and it is now "Genius".

Sadly my Ungodly Cynic is "undergrad", but my This Secular Nation is "Genius". Sweet, I hope that one stays that way.

Okay, back to this post comment.

Seems to me that Mormons (and probably a great many other "denominations") would like to see the deceased added to their post-membership list in this way. It helps to create validity for the "faith". It's almost like a de facto conversion.

It's hard (really hard) to wrap my brain around a great many religious rationale.

I was never baptised and never saw the need (probably because I wasn't indoctrinated; as can be attested from my moms blog. Doing so ties your individuality to...something (not sure what). A social order?

Anyway I'm ecstatic that my death will not contribute to any faith after I am worm food.

Larro said...

This is a test. It is only a test. If by any chance your faith is being compromised please refer to Chapter 9 - Section 2 - Page 9,074,657 which states: "You must provide your own #2 pencil".

Seriously though I just wanted to comment back so this commentary would feed back to my email. LOL.

Interested said...

Really? Genius? It must be based on the quotes I take from other sites.;o)

tina said...

He told me mine was genius too, whatever!

rick b said...

Beast said I know this is irrational, but I have always worried that if I do die first, my Christian aunt will force my parents to give me a Christian funeral.


Well I guess it's a good thing I am not a pastor, I have no problem getting up and speaking the truth, I would never imply your a great guy who loved God, I would say something like, Well Beast is in hell waiting for the lake of fire, he hated God and now God is giving him what he wants, the sad thing is, Beast was stupid enough to believe a lie and think God was not real and was just a lie, but now as he lifts his head in eternal torment and burns away for ever he will suffer with the fact he choose a lie.

I guess that would not be a good choice either, but unlike a paid Preacher, I will not lie and say your were a great guy who loved God, I would not want to mislead the people about you. Rick b

BEAST said...

Thank you, Rick, for your unwarranted, unsolicited bigotry.

For all it is worth, you might just be joining me in the great, imaginary cauldron of fire.....with the great pantheon of Gods and Goddesses that have been around since the advent of modern man, who's this say who's gonna be burning in which deity's bonfire?

Beast

rick b said...

Beast, Why can you say you hate God and talk about what I believe as a lie and other things, yet I must refrain from doing the same with you lest I be called a bigot? Rick b

Larro said...

Rick B, please reread the comments.

Nowhere do I see that anybody stated they "hate God".

tina said...

Oh boy, I was JUST going to say that, Larro. I don't hate god or ANY god for that matter, I can't, I don't believe in gods. I do have a problem with someone telling me that I will burn in a lake of fire all the time. Just HOW do they know that? Been there? If you ask me, in my opinion, people that spout such bull act like they are trying to be god, isn't that a bad thing? Not sure on that one though.

rick b said...

beast said on his site,
TEMPLE OF THE INVINCIBLE BEASTMASTER

IF YOU ARE A DEVOUT FOLLOWER OF THE INVINCIBLE BEASTMASTER, COME ON IN AND PAY YOUR RESPECTS. RULE OF THUMB: FEEL FREE TO DROP YOUR PRAYERS AS AND WHEN YOU WISH TO.UNLIKE MAINSTREAM RELIGIONS, THE TEMPLE OF THE INVINCIBLE DEMANDS NAUGHT FOR TITHES. BLASPHEMY IS ENCOURAGED, SO LONG AS IT IS NOT DIRECTED AGAINST THE BEASTMASTER HIMSELF.


so BLASPHEMY IS ENCOURAGED, well that imply you are speaking out and hating a God you do not believe in. Plus it is implied he or any one can BLASPHEMY my God or believe, but we cannot extend the favor to him. Rick b

Larro said...

Rick B, So you intend to blasphemy BEAST?

LOL. How ridiculous that sounds.

Atheists can not "hate God". Understand this: atheists do not believe in any gods including your Christian god, therefore it is impossible to hate something that they believe does not exist. Suffice it to say that it is possible for an atheist to hate the notion of gods or the belief thereof but not the "thing" itself.

rick b said...

Just because you do not believe in God or eternal Fire simply does not make it go away. Plus I was not trying to blasphemy beast, I was simply saying I would tell it like it is and since it is ok for him to say what he wants, I thought I would say what I want.

I told my boss once, he said he does not believe in a God he cannot see, I told him, I cannot see your brain, does that mean it does not exist? Rick b

Larro said...

Rick B; In your above copy and paste from Beasts "TEMPLE OF THE INVINCIBLE BEASTMASTER" it still does not articulate any "hating of God".

Just because you do believe in God or eternal Fire simply does not make it so.

Interested said...

Rick you can't see your boss's brain but if a surgeon cuts into his skull then you can see it. Show me god. Cut into your soul and show me.

BEAST said...

Lol Rick B

It is true that I am an advocate of blasphemy, and I will not make any attempts to hide it.

Why, you might ask? Cos God doesn't exist, and blasphemy is a blameless crime!

As for comparing brains to God, this comparison is ludicrous. I don't even have to cut open your boss's skull, as Larro puts it, to see whether your boss has a brain. There are other safer ways to do it, such as a CT scan.

Oh, by the way, you may choose to offer your prayers in the temple of the invincible beastmaster. He may not answer your prayers, but he sure gives your ass a good hiding!

Cheers
Beast

rick b said...

I can see my Boss's brain from a CT scan or cutting into him, I can see God's creation and the prophecy being laid out all around, sadly you guys reject every evidence ever given and no matter how solid the evidence you find a way to reject it.

Just like with all the evidence to prove the world is round like photos from space, some people believe it is flat. Or with all the evidence people went to the moon, still people believe that is a lie, or all the people who died in the holocaust, many still reject that as a lie, plenty of other things that have nothing to do with the bible, yet people believe or reject. Rick b

tina said...

I like this post, Interested!

BEAST said...

Rick B

The reason why we ignore your holy babble and your deity as universal truth is because both are no more different than the pantheon of Gods, Goddesses and other "holey books", which have since walked down the ignominious path of extinction.

All you have are allegories of God, not tangible proofs. You cannot compare the moon and the holocaust with God. The moon is an observable object, the holocaust is a historically verifiable event, & God is simply a fickle of your depraved imagination.

Beast

BEAST said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BEAST said...

http://atheisthaven.blogspot.com
/2007/10/in-lair-of-heaven-dialogue-between-holy_13.html

rick b said...

Beast said All you have are allegories of God, not tangible proofs.

No matter how much proof we give you say it is never enough. You can say the proof we give is not tangible, so here is one that I know you will reject.

In the Book of Acts, Paul was on board a ship that was going to crash in a bad storm, so they dropped two anchors. here we are 2,000 years later, a few people used the Bible as a guide and found those two anchors and gave them to the king of the Island Malta as a gift.

check here, http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/472/

Then as I said before, you have people who deny any and all religion, like yourself, yet no matter how much tangible proof you give them on subject's like, man landing on the moon, the earth is round, not flat, or the holocaust did happen, people still reject this stuff. So even non-believers reject truth despite the over whelming evidence. Rick b

BEAST said...

Rick:

Shipwrecks and anchors are commonplace in sea routes that were plied by all sorts of mariners in the ancient world. Where's the authenticity for this kind of preposterous claims?

In any case, we don't even have concrete evidence that Paul even exists.

Like I refuted earlier, comparing biblical nonsense to moons and holocausts is just bogus. In fact, much of what is written in the bible flies in the face of just about every fact finding branch: History, Geography, Biology, Etc.

Good example: The town of Nazereth where jebus was supposed to be walking was not even a town until the third century A.D. Surprised? Go check the archaeological records.

Beast

rick b said...

I know you deny hell exists, thats fine, but once you die and you find out it is real and you end up their, then you will have gotten exactly what you want, that is a life and eterinty apart from God. So once you die and end up in hell, you cannot blame anyone for where you end up. Rick b

BEAST said...

Oh........help........I am burning!!!

Rick, if that's the best you can muster, I suggest you sure a place with me in hell. Let us roast together, shall we?

Cheers
Beast