Children and God

I recently started a new job. Although I have worked with children in the recent past, my exposure to them was limited to 30-45 minutes a week. Now I have the total responsibility of 17 little darlings all day long, 5 days a week. I don't know what I was thinking!

All that aside, I recently over heard several students in a heated argument about the orgin of man...MAN...not mankind. Now please keep in mind that these students are 8 years old.

A very snappy little girl said, " I don't care if god did make the man first, he saved the best for last ."

Then a rather indignant young man retorted, "Well, you still have to do what we say because you are made with one of our ribs."

An then the conversation starter, " You're both wrong because people were born from monkeys and that makes us all equal."

Of course, the bell rang and I had to put a stop to the dialog but oh how enlightening to find that at least one of my students has been exposed to reality.

Religion and Divorce

I recently read here that 20% of Catholic and Protestant marriages end in divorce within the first 5 year. The stats for Jewish marriages is 40%.

Looking further at this site I found that the number one reason say they got a divorce is because "She was unfaithful". The last was because, "I was unfaithful".



I have to ask...what are the stats for non-believers?

Does it make a difference? Are the numbers comparable?

In the beginning...

Last week my son came over for a drink and some conversation. We usually have deep conversations about life, politics or religion. We are of about the same persuasion however we do not always agree; which keeps it interesting. Often we recommend books to each other and exchange ideas about those we read.

Some time ago he recommended Karen Armstrong's work. He brought it up again and this time I heeded the call. Off to the library for new supply of reading material.

I completed the first of the three books I obtained: In the beginning. In all fairness I think I did read this months ago but I certainly did not get out of it what I did this time. I am following up with A Short History of Myth by the same author.

I remember a book club discussion of Joseph Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces which was my first exposure to the idea that the christian story was not original. The book of Genesis, as interpreted by Karen Armstrong gives me a new look at those stories and the impact they have had on civilization.

Holy Days

Holidays are for family.

We've heard it all our lives but what happens when the "holy" in holiday becomes overwhelming?

My family is diverse. We have several ethnic groups represented along with differing religions, Mormon being the newcomer to the family. One of my daughters is "born again christian", and whatever that entails. Another of my children is a recovering alcoholic so AA is the religion of choice. One of my children has enough sense to be agnostic. My grandchildren are nothing I can put a handle on, some worship the dollar and others themselves and I...am an atheist.

Imagine this crowd at a holiday dinner. Do we say grace before the meal, after the meal or not at all? I didn't get into the discussion but we did it all. Before and after, I still don't understand why god needs to hear it twice, or why anyone but god has to hear it at all, for that matter.

Oh, do I sound bitter? I am in the sense that when I go out with my religious children for dinner in a restaurant I have to listen to them pray. Why? Do they not consider that they invited me, knowing how I feel and that I might not want to make a spectacle of myself in public?

Why does anyone pray in public? I read something about prayer being private here.

First time maybe, but it seems the bible agrees with me.

Christians

All of you...listen. I respect your right to believe what you want but please stop trying to convert me and others on this blog. This is an atheist blog. If you have something to add..do so but please STOP evangelizing here. This is not the place to proselytize. You'll get nowhere.

The Perfect Woman

The LDS Conference, which took place in October, escaped my attention because of recent changes in my life and circumstances, however Julie Beck's .Mothers Who Know talk deserves some comment from me.

As many of you know, my daughter married a mormon a few years ago. I watch her struggle with the expectations of this very demanding organization. Recently, I noted a change in her behavior: she started cooking again! She has been the queen of fast food but suddenly (around October) she became more domesticated. I wondered about the change but now I understand.

I read Beck's talk and some of the comments about it. This one puts it into perspective for me...I wish my daughter would read it.

"Mothers who know are nurturers. ... Another word for nurturing is homemaking. Homemaking includes cooking, washing clothes and dishes, and keeping an orderly home. Home is where women have the most power and influence; therefore, Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world. Nurturing mothers are knowledgeable, but all the education women attain will avail them nothing if they do not have the skill to make a home that creates a climate for spiritual growth. Growth happens best in a "house of order," and women should pattern their homes after the Lord's house."

And this comment:

I can’t get this Julie Beck thing off my mind now so I keep logging in to RFM and reading those threads when I’ve got a shitload of work piled on my desk.

But it’s exactly that (work) that keeps me thinking of that stupid talk. I’m sitting here surrounded by working women. OK, from my office I can hear people in 5 offices—all of them just happen to be women. All of them have incredible families. One is childless by choice, one is a mother and grandmother, but has been in a happy lesbian relationship for a number of years. Three are married and have school-aged children. Four of them are corporate attorneys (also, it’s a Fortune 100 company), two are also managing directors. One is a senior paralegal. I am the lone former “Mother Who Knew.”

I DEFY any mormon woman to match their families, their relationships and their children up against any of these women. Yes, they make hard CHOICES. They are all very well paid. They have to decide what they can delegate to paid help (e.g., a nanny who picks up the kids from school and gets them started on their homework, a housekeeper who does the bulk of the major cleaning, a gardner, etc.) and what they feel is important to their family for them to not delegate (making dinner, attending soccer games, church and school activities, planning and taking fun family trips). They have marriages or relationships that I can only dream of. Where my temple-married husband got bored with Molly Mormon who “knew,” but was burnt out and uninteresting, their husbands see them as fun, interesting and someone they’d better stay in line for. Where my children were lucky to be able to take a trip to the desert to see their grandparents with their cash-strapped mother who “knew,” theirs are taking trips to Europe and Prague and China that they all planned together as a family. Where my children were “contributing” to the world by being forced by their mother who “knew” to get up too early for Seminary and hating it, theirs are working on Habitat for Humanity and the food bank and things that actually make a difference.

Where their children who are grown treat them like treasures, call them regularly, respect them, my children can barely stomach the fact that they had a mother who was so stupid and made such stupid decisions (somehow they were all able to figure it out for themselves). And I have no answers for my daughters who married too young because I let them stay in the brainwashing cult long past when I really believed, but I was too insecure to get out and face motherhood in the real world. My one child who respects me is the youngest—the one who was there when I made the transition out of TSCC, went back to college in my 40s and finally got a respectiable career.

I also have some friends who are happy stay-at-home moms. One even home schools her kids. But they don’t have so many kids that they don’t have time for themselves also. Their husbands have good enough jobs that they truly can afford to make that decision and it isn’t forced on them because the meger income they could make would barely pay for child care. And then I have friends who are childless by choice. Most of them are better parents to their dogs than I probably was to my kids when I was strung out on Paxil. They deal with zero guilt or ridicule over their decisions to be childless.

So Ms. Beck, all I have to say to you is Shut the F*** Up! How DARE you heap more guilt, more ridicule, and more despair and dejection on women you don’t even know—women who are just trying their best as it is to be a perfect member of your mindf***ing cult!

And yet another:

The Church relies on cliches, mindless obedience (aka faith),guilt, meaningless ceremonies, hierarchies, and all sorts of really complicated and convoluted doctrines and promises and ceremonies in order to teach what they claim to be "plain and simple" truth.

.... truth is really simple and self-evident. It doesn't take a genius to see that ... strong women in her office were living fulfilling lives which are the result of making right logical decisions.

Living a fulfilling life has NOTHING to do with weird ceremonies, faith, or magic. A fulfilling life comes from working to reach one's potential, to love and be loved by those you care about. The truth is simple and brilliant.

There is NO TRUTH in the MORG. It just uses convoluted explanations, demands of faith and obedience as a smokescreen for teachings that really don't make any sense.

It is true that we make our own decisions and should be responsible for them but it is also irrefutable that one's religion plays a large part in influencing these choices particularly when the religion is as intrusive and all encompassing as Mormonism. After all, what other religioni dictates what type of underwear you can wear, how you can have sex, who can or cannot attend your wedding, how many earrings you can have, and how much facial hair men can have.

I can credit the MORG for encouraging me to get married early, pump out a bunch of kids, and to send my sons to the lame scout programs organized by the Church out of guilt.

I immediately regained at least 14% of my time after I quit the MORG and also recouped quite a bit of income (even though I wasn't paying 10% before I quit I did lose the occasional several thousand that I paid out of guilt when tithing settlement got close)

I encourage everyone who is doubting to get out and really "investigate" the Church. Find out the truth and then have the guts to make the choice that their findings lead them to.
Source


Another well written article on this subject can be found at More on Mothers

Men of the Cloth

I recently read a book by Susan Ray Schmidt His Favorite Wife. My interest in the mormon church and its history, continues to be one of MY favorite things. As I finished the book I was left wanting more so off on a search to find something I have not read.

I found an article on About.com that reviews a book by Martha Beck who is the daughter of Dr. Hugh Nibley, professor emeritus of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University and "arguably the leading living authority on Mormon teaching." She is also the author of a new book where she reveals being sexually abused by her father and explains why she left Mormonism.

Although the article was posted in 2005 it seems timely today. With the rise in reported molesting by "men of the cloth" I become more frustrated by religion every day. What is it about these men that makes them such a despicable, evil characters? Is it religion and the belief that they are working for god?

If so I am certainly glad god is imaginary.